BlasterMaster wrote: i tried the toilet character and the donut, here's my impressions
normals are way too slow. in a game like this normals should be a "get off me" move for interrupting the opponent. the toilets normals are extremely slow. a jab in a 60 FPS game tends to start up in 4 frames, your neutral normals should be about as fast specials can also be pretty slow. the game is almost more of a shooter given how free your movement is, so i think locking the player in long animations is generally unfun. that could require more tuning though. i played as the toilet first, and his water attack cannot be repeated unless all water leaves the screen. this makes the move nearly useless in the upper area of the screen, and it already does poor damage and is hard to hit with. projectiles should either be freely spammable but have longer uncancellable animations, or else have a cooldown timer. similar note, projectiles disappear if they even get close to the edge of the screen, which means that hanging out near the top or bottom and shooting makes your projectile instantly disappear. projectiles should still be active in a short area off-screen in the first post you mentioned that ring-outs are supposed to be a big thing, but attacks seemed to have very little knockback in most cases? if knocking the opponent around is a major part of gameplay, attacks should bounce characters around more i think. this is also something that requires fine-tuning. characters can phase completely through each other. this makes normals extremely difficult to hit with as characters can get too close and end up inside each other swinging at air. there should be an area roughly the size of a jab around every character that opponents can't pass through characters can move and attack while dodging. if it's a dodge they should be locked in a dodge animation i would think? or at least be unable to attack. depends on what you're trying to accomplish there Thanks a lot for the feedback! Normals should be faster, you're absolutely right. I've done that just now, made some of them faster. I have also started to try to give them more of a combo game: I've started with Toilet Jr, and given him a Down Normal, which is a quick downwards swing (similar to his Neutral Normal, just a sommersault instead of a backflip, and much faster). This attack is weaker, but doesn't send the opponent far at all, so you can follow up moves after it. Additionally, I've made it so you can cancel his Side Normal (where he fly forwards) into a normal attack that doesn't send them far up. This means you can for example do Side Normal -> Neutral Normal -> Up normal, if you hit correctly. Specials are slow, too, yeah. I've yet to find the balance between speed of projectile moves, speed of normal moves, damage of moves, and movement speed. But I can try to make them faster. I will try to find a solution to the projectiles getting destroyed near the edges. I've made it so that projectiles are destroyed if they hit an obstacle (edges of the screen) or an enemy projectile. So I'll need to find a solution to that. Toilet's water is also something I'm in doubt of. As you say, you can't use it until they're all gone. I made that to prevent spam, since the move is very fast, so a move you can just throw out to create some hindering projectiles. But maybe a cooldown is a better solution, yeah. I've also just recently given the water drops more hitstun, so if you're up close and use the water, the hitstun is so long that you can follow up with another move. But I will experiment around with this. I can also give them more knockback, for sure. I think that's a good idea. The thing with the characters being able to pass through each other is a good point. I can try to maybe make their hurtboxes collide, if that can work. Will again experiment with this. The idea of the dodge was that it's not spammable since it has to recharge, but that you can move and use attacks while invincible. This way you can for example go straight towards a projectile they're about to send out, use the dodge, and fly in with an attack. Or go in, they use a Normal attack, you use the Dodge and don't get it, and you hit them instead. But again, not spammable, since it has around 15 seconds of cooldown. But not sure if this is the best solution? Again, thanks! I've also added another new feature: Dash. You can use it to get a quick dash in the direction you're flying, using some new Stamina in the process. The Stamina is recharged by damaging your opponent. So I've added that, I've made some characters slightly faster now, and I'm adding more moves (like I've now done with Toilet Jr.) as well as trying my best to make combos a thing. I hope the game can turn out to be good and big, but as of now, I'm not sure at all Maybe it's trash.. But I'll keep working on it and update here when another update is ready!
[quote="BlasterMaster"]i tried the toilet character and the donut, here's my impressions
normals are way too slow. in a game like this normals should be a "get off me" move for interrupting the opponent. the toilets normals are extremely slow. a jab in a 60 FPS game tends to start up in 4 frames, your neutral normals should be about as fast
specials can also be pretty slow. the game is almost more of a shooter given how free your movement is, so i think locking the player in long animations is generally unfun. that could require more tuning though.
i played as the toilet first, and his water attack cannot be repeated unless all water leaves the screen. this makes the move nearly useless in the upper area of the screen, and it already does poor damage and is hard to hit with. projectiles should either be freely spammable but have longer uncancellable animations, or else have a cooldown timer.
similar note, projectiles disappear if they even get close to the edge of the screen, which means that hanging out near the top or bottom and shooting makes your projectile instantly disappear. projectiles should still be active in a short area off-screen
in the first post you mentioned that ring-outs are supposed to be a big thing, but attacks seemed to have very little knockback in most cases? if knocking the opponent around is a major part of gameplay, attacks should bounce characters around more i think. this is also something that requires fine-tuning.
characters can phase completely through each other. this makes normals extremely difficult to hit with as characters can get too close and end up inside each other swinging at air. there should be an area roughly the size of a jab around every character that opponents can't pass through
characters can move and attack while dodging. if it's a dodge they should be locked in a dodge animation i would think? or at least be unable to attack. depends on what you're trying to accomplish there[/quote]
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Normals should be faster, you're absolutely right. I've done that just now, made some of them faster. I have also started to try to give them more of a combo game: I've started with Toilet Jr, and given him a Down Normal, which is a quick downwards swing (similar to his Neutral Normal, just a sommersault instead of a backflip, and much faster). This attack is weaker, but doesn't send the opponent far at all, so you can follow up moves after it. Additionally, I've made it so you can cancel his Side Normal (where he fly forwards) into a normal attack that doesn't send them far up. This means you can for example do Side Normal -> Neutral Normal -> Up normal, if you hit correctly.
Specials are slow, too, yeah. I've yet to find the balance between speed of projectile moves, speed of normal moves, damage of moves, and movement speed. But I can try to make them faster. I will try to find a solution to the projectiles getting destroyed near the edges. I've made it so that projectiles are destroyed if they hit an obstacle (edges of the screen) or an enemy projectile. So I'll need to find a solution to that. Toilet's water is also something I'm in doubt of. As you say, you can't use it until they're all gone. I made that to prevent spam, since the move is very fast, so a move you can just throw out to create some hindering projectiles. But maybe a cooldown is a better solution, yeah. I've also just recently given the water drops more hitstun, so if you're up close and use the water, the hitstun is so long that you can follow up with another move. But I will experiment around with this.
I can also give them more knockback, for sure. I think that's a good idea. The thing with the characters being able to pass through each other is a good point. I can try to maybe make their hurtboxes collide, if that can work. Will again experiment with this.
The idea of the dodge was that it's not spammable since it has to recharge, but that you can move and use attacks while invincible. This way you can for example go straight towards a projectile they're about to send out, use the dodge, and fly in with an attack. Or go in, they use a Normal attack, you use the Dodge and don't get it, and you hit them instead. But again, not spammable, since it has around 15 seconds of cooldown. But not sure if this is the best solution?
Again, thanks! I've also added another new feature: Dash. You can use it to get a quick dash in the direction you're flying, using some new Stamina in the process. The Stamina is recharged by damaging your opponent. So I've added that, I've made some characters slightly faster now, and I'm adding more moves (like I've now done with Toilet Jr.) as well as trying my best to make combos a thing. I hope the game can turn out to be good and big, but as of now, I'm not sure at all :confused: Maybe it's trash.. But I'll keep working on it and update here when another update is ready!
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