Mors wrote: I don't get it. I don't get the purpose of this game. I mean, why would anyone want to buy a worse version of Super Tux for $10, while Super Tux is available for free? I think it's a better game than SuperTux, not a worse game. You're free to disagree, of course, but just because you don't think it's worth $10 doesn't mean no one thinks it's worth $10. Since version 0.5 (the first beta) was released, two people have paid that $10 price, and I don't personally know these two people, so I guess at least some people other than me think that $10 is a worthwhile price for it. Also, if you don't think the price is reasonable, since the game is libre, you have the option of splitting up the cost with some others and sharing the game amongst yourselves. You might even find someone distributing the game for free; jxself from the Trisquel community was doing that for a time. Mors wrote: And I know you said "ReTux is also not intended to clone SuperTux" in your IndieGogo page, but we both know that's not true. ReTux is way too similar to Super Tux. From the footage I saw I only noticed 3 major differences. 1 - The level design is different (And a bit worse.) 2 - You hold items instead of collecting them (Okay, that's kinda clever, I like this idea.) 3 - You have a health bar instead (Which would make the game too easy.) But these differences are not enough to make the game different. The graphics are exactly same, music and sounds are exactly same, the enemies are same, the main menu is same, the playable character is same, the mapscreen is really similar etc... There are only three things that are actually similar between SuperTux and ReTux: most (but not all) of the graphics, most (but not all) of the sounds and music, and the fact that both of them are platformers inspired by the Mario games. The entire source code of ReTux is different from the source code of SuperTux, in a different programming language, in fact. So a comparison between these two games to find out what the differences are realistically makes very little sense. But here are a few differences you didn't notice: - ReTux is complete. SuperTux is in early alpha, and likely to remain in early alpha for a very long time.
- ReTux has a different set of enemies. Some points of interest: spikies and jumpies cannot be burned. The snowman is a boss rather than a common enemy and behaves completely differently, more similar to Boom-Boom from SMB3. The yeti is the final boss rather than just the first boss out of 6 or so. Raccot (the yeti) behaves completely differently from the yeti in SuperTux, more similar to Bowser from SMB3. The walking bomb enemy takes a longer time to explode and can be thrown, not just dropped. The flying spiky doesn't exist at all in SuperTux. ReTux's "circoflame", unlike SuperTux's "flame", can have any radius and is commonly used to create a firebar. Bombs, when exploded, cause ice to melt and blocks to be hit. There are probably some other differences in the enemies I'm not thinking of right now.
- ReTux doesn't have a run key. Instead it has an "action" key and a "sneak" key. The "action" key is pressed to throw things or do things with them, rather than having to hold them down to keep holding the items.
- ReTux's "thin ice" doesn't behave like SuperTux's "weak block". It can regenerate if you stop standing on it for a while.
- ReTux's ice flower doesn't behave like SuperTux's ice flower. It shoots in a straight line until it hits something, and frozen enemies act as platforms (like Metroid).
- ReTux does not require you to "pay" coins to use checkpoints. You just have unlimited lives.
- ReTux is colorblind-friendly. (Achieving this is why an animated map space was used for incomplete levels; anyone with red/green color deficiency would have a hard time distinguishing between the "complete" and "incomplete" dots in SuperTux.)
- This hopefully shouldn't persist, but at the moment, ReTux has graphical improvements that I commissioned which have not been incorporated into SuperTux.
- ReTux focuses on the Icy Island graphics. SuperTux is supposed to have different-looking worlds, one of the main reasons it's taking the SuperTux team so long to develop it.
- ReTux uses equations to make jumping heights almost pixel-perfect. As an example, Tux jumps exactly 4 tiles and 1 pixel high, which means if there's a gap at a height of 4 tiles, you can get in that gap without touching the tile above it.
- Although the game doesn't take advantage of this, the ReTux engine supports warp levels, like what map warp pipes in SMB3 have, or like that tower level in SMB3's cloud world.
- Tux dolls don't just give you coins in ReTux; they're special collectibles which are required for 100% completion, more similar to e.g. the star coins in NSMB.
- Coins, and nothing else, regenerate your health. This means that levels can be made harder just by making less coins available (and this is done in later levels).
- Tux in ReTux does not have a state that persists between levels. At the start of each level, he has full health.
- ReTux's title screen demo is an actual recording of gameplay in a level with actual items and obstacles, not just walking to the right and randomly pressing the jump button in an empty level.
- ReTux's slope support isn't buggy like SuperTux's is. (There is one bug, but it only shows up in a slope configuration which there aren't even tiles for to begin with; it can be seen in the test level).
There are more differences, but I think I've made my point. Mors wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm not against you making a game that's extremely similar to Super Tux, I'm against you selling the game. Because doing that doesn't make you much different than those Chinese bootleg NES game sellers. I disagree. Even if this was literally just SuperTux, I don't think I would be in the wrong by selling it. Firstly, it's legal. Secondly, selling a copy of a work is never unethical in my opinion. I think copyright monopolies are generally unjust, and their only legitimate use is copyleft. Actually, I just might include a copy of SuperTux on the ReTux CD, come to think of it. (I was thinking of bundling some bonus games on it, since ReTux won't use anywhere near the 700 MB available on a CD, and SuperTux would be a great choice for that.)
[quote="Mors"]I don't get it. I don't get the purpose of this game. I mean, why would anyone want to buy a worse version of Super Tux for $10, while Super Tux is available for free?[/quote]
I think it's a better game than SuperTux, not a worse game. You're free to disagree, of course, but just because you don't think it's worth $10 doesn't mean no one thinks it's worth $10. Since version 0.5 (the first beta) was released, two people have paid that $10 price, and I don't personally know these two people, so I guess at least some people other than me think that $10 is a worthwhile price for it.
Also, if you don't think the price is reasonable, since the game is libre, you have the option of splitting up the cost with some others and sharing the game amongst yourselves. You might even find someone distributing the game for free; jxself from the Trisquel community was doing that for a time.
[quote="Mors"]And I know you said "ReTux is also not intended to clone SuperTux" in your IndieGogo page, but we both know that's not true. ReTux is way too similar to Super Tux. From the footage I saw I only noticed 3 major differences.
1 - The level design is different (And a bit worse.)
2 - You hold items instead of collecting them (Okay, that's kinda clever, I like this idea.)
3 - You have a health bar instead (Which would make the game too easy.)
But these differences are not enough to make the game different. The graphics are exactly same, music and sounds are exactly same, the enemies are same, the main menu is same, the playable character is same, the mapscreen is really similar etc...[/quote]
There are only three things that are actually similar between SuperTux and ReTux: most (but not all) of the graphics, most (but not all) of the sounds and music, and the fact that both of them are platformers inspired by the Mario games. The entire source code of ReTux is different from the source code of SuperTux, in a different programming language, in fact. So a comparison between these two games to find out what the differences are realistically makes very little sense. But here are a few differences you didn't notice:
[list]
[*]ReTux is complete. SuperTux is in early alpha, and likely to remain in early alpha for a very long time.
[*]ReTux has a different set of enemies. Some points of interest: spikies and jumpies cannot be burned. The snowman is a boss rather than a common enemy and behaves completely differently, more similar to Boom-Boom from SMB3. The yeti is the final boss rather than just the first boss out of 6 or so. Raccot (the yeti) behaves completely differently from the yeti in SuperTux, more similar to Bowser from SMB3. The walking bomb enemy takes a longer time to explode and can be thrown, not just dropped. The flying spiky doesn't exist at all in SuperTux. ReTux's "circoflame", unlike SuperTux's "flame", can have any radius and is commonly used to create a firebar. Bombs, when exploded, cause ice to melt and blocks to be hit. There are probably some other differences in the enemies I'm not thinking of right now.
[*]ReTux doesn't have a run key. Instead it has an "action" key and a "sneak" key. The "action" key is pressed to throw things or do things with them, rather than having to hold them down to keep holding the items.
[*]ReTux's "thin ice" doesn't behave like SuperTux's "weak block". It can regenerate if you stop standing on it for a while.
[*]ReTux's ice flower doesn't behave like SuperTux's ice flower. It shoots in a straight line until it hits something, and frozen enemies act as platforms (like Metroid).
[*]ReTux does not require you to "pay" coins to use checkpoints. You just have unlimited lives.
[*]ReTux is colorblind-friendly. (Achieving this is why an animated map space was used for incomplete levels; anyone with red/green color deficiency would have a hard time distinguishing between the "complete" and "incomplete" dots in SuperTux.)
[*]This hopefully shouldn't persist, but at the moment, ReTux has graphical improvements that I commissioned which have not been incorporated into SuperTux.
[*]ReTux focuses on the Icy Island graphics. SuperTux is supposed to have different-looking worlds, one of the main reasons it's taking the SuperTux team so long to develop it.
[*]ReTux uses equations to make jumping heights almost pixel-perfect. As an example, Tux jumps exactly 4 tiles and 1 pixel high, which means if there's a gap at a height of 4 tiles, you can get in that gap without touching the tile above it.
[*]Although the game doesn't take advantage of this, the ReTux engine supports warp levels, like what map warp pipes in SMB3 have, or like that tower level in SMB3's cloud world.
[*]Tux dolls don't just give you coins in ReTux; they're special collectibles which are required for 100% completion, more similar to e.g. the star coins in NSMB.
[*]Coins, and nothing else, regenerate your health. This means that levels can be made harder just by making less coins available (and this is done in later levels).
[*]Tux in ReTux does not have a state that persists between levels. At the start of each level, he has full health.
[*]ReTux's title screen demo is an actual recording of gameplay in a level with actual items and obstacles, not just walking to the right and randomly pressing the jump button in an empty level.
[*]ReTux's slope support isn't buggy like SuperTux's is. (There is one bug, but it only shows up in a slope configuration which there aren't even tiles for to begin with; it can be seen in the test level).[/list]
There are more differences, but I think I've made my point.
[quote="Mors"]Don't get me wrong, I'm not against you making a game that's extremely similar to Super Tux, I'm against you selling the game. Because doing that doesn't make you much different than those Chinese bootleg NES game sellers.[/quote]
I disagree. Even if this was literally just SuperTux, I don't think I would be in the wrong by selling it. Firstly, it's legal. Secondly, selling a copy of a work is never unethical in my opinion. I think copyright monopolies are generally unjust, and their only legitimate use is copyleft.
Actually, I just might include a copy of SuperTux on the ReTux CD, come to think of it. (I was thinking of bundling some bonus games on it, since ReTux won't use anywhere near the 700 MB available on a CD, and SuperTux would be a great choice for that.)
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