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| Allowing Rom Hacks https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=20855 |
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| Author: | CatoNator [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Sloshy wrote: this is exactly the problem hosting rom hacks will contribute to. it will send a big message saying its ok to neglect pushing forward to improve development skill cuz u can just dl a rom editor and click around without a challenge And Hello clones aren't suffering from the same exact issue? And they're still allowed on the mainsite? |
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| Author: | Super Mario WTL [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Level design is as important an aspect in creating a video game as any other. We shouldn't demand that people who want to get into making games know how to program any more than we demand they know how to make graphics or music or write stories or any of the skills that could go into making a game. Creating video games takes skills from all across the board, the attitude that people aren't _really_ putting effort in if they don't program is just absurd. MFGG could probably manage things that focus on level design better, maybe handle it differently from a full fledged identity-of-its-own kind of game. We really missed the boat when it came to Mario Maker which should have been Huge on MFGG and maybe a big part of that is how the MFGG community is constantly shitting on tools that let people just focus on the levels. |
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| Author: | Willsaber [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Super Mario WTL wrote: MFGG could probably manage things that focus on level design better, maybe handle it differently from a full fledged identity-of-its-own kind of game. We really missed the boat when it came to Mario Maker which should have been Huge on MFGG and maybe a big part of that is how the MFGG community is constantly shitting on tools that let people just focus on the levels. Mario Maker simply ended up being a lackluster level design tool, lacking slopes or any sort of custom behaviors. Both of these are essential features in stuff like Lunar Magic, Hello Engine, or Super Mario Bros. X. Mario Maker is a toy, not a tool. |
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| Author: | Zero Kirby [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
So that doesn't change the fact that it makes level design ACCESSIBLE and FUN for a lot of people to whom ROM hacks and fangames may well not exist and jumping on top of supporting it would have been a huge shot in the arm for the community Like that's the exact attitude Mario above you just got done deriding, wow man |
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| Author: | Mit [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
having integrated mario maker "support" or whatever would be neat, did the miiverse closure affect level sharing at all? if not then we could totally have a profile field for listing mario maker level codes |
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| Author: | Dustinvgmaster [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Mit wrote: having integrated mario maker "support" or whatever would be neat, did the miiverse closure affect level sharing at all? if not then we could totally have a profile field for listing mario maker level codes The closure of Miiverse removed the ability to make comments, but the levels are still up. In addition, MyBB allows for extra profile fields easy, so |
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| Author: | No Name [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Any external files required to run the game must be included in its download - Submission Rules So... Every time a rom hack uploads to the main site... It should include the emulator?? |
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| Author: | YoshiEgos [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
I don't think so, I think it means like extra files to run the game such as patches or a specific tool of some sorts. |
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| Author: | Willsaber [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Zero Kirby wrote: Like that's the exact attitude Mario above you just got done deriding, wow man That's really not, lol. Mario's post asserts that programming isn't a necessary facet of game development, but he mentions nothing about the value of fun in level design tools. Lunar Magic, Hello Engine, and SMBX do not have a significantly larger skill barrier to use at an entry level than Super Mario Maker, because none of them require a great deal of programming. Idk where you're getting the idea that Mario said anything about "FUN". Moreover, we should discourage the use of Mario Maker levels in favor of Hello Engine, Lunar Magic, and SMBX because all three of those tools share one aspect which Mario Maker lacks: a boundless skill ceiling. No programming is required to make levels in any of these tools (or at least, very little), but once you learn programming, the potential you unlock in HE, LM, and SMBX expands tremendously. You can do pretty much anything you want at that point. Mario Maker lacks any sort of scripting engine, so learning the tool is a dead-end skill and a waste of time. |
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| Author: | Zero Kirby [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Willsaber wrote: Zero Kirby wrote: Like that's the exact attitude Mario above you just got done deriding, wow man That's really not, lol. Mario's post asserts that programming isn't a necessary facet of game development, but he mentions nothing about the value of fun in level design tools. Lunar Magic, Hello Engine, and SMBX do not have a significantly larger skill barrier to use at an entry level than Super Mario Maker, because none of them require a great deal of programming. Idk where you're getting the idea that Mario said anything about "FUN". Moreover, we should discourage the use of Mario Maker levels in favor of Hello Engine, Lunar Magic, and SMBX because all three of those tools share one aspect which Mario Maker lacks: a boundless skill ceiling. No programming is required to make levels in any of these tools (or at least, very little), but once you learn programming, the potential you unlock in HE, LM, and SMBX expands tremendously. You can do pretty much anything you want at that point. Mario Maker lacks any sort of scripting engine, so learning the tool is a dead-end skill and a waste of time. If you're just going to cherrypick a single thing in my post in order to prove "AHA YOU ARE WRONG" when I never said Mario said Mario Maker was fun, just that Mario Maker made level design more accessible and fun to people who do not know a thing about ROM hacking or Game Maker and may not even care about ROM hacking or Game Maker, therefore we should still support Mario Maker then it simply isn't worth talking to you. Your ability to read things and then remove them from their actual context in order to "win" an argument is as baffling as ever. Here's what Mario said that I was referring to, by the way: Quote: the MFGG community is constantly ****ing on tools that let people just focus on the levels. And that's exactly what you are doing. This level of elitism is poisonous to MFGG's future and isn't helping anyone. End of. |
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| Author: | Evil Yoshi Toes [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
I don't see why we shouldn't support Mario maker. It may be more limiting than the engines you mentioned, but it's a fun and very user friendly level design tool that a lot of people know about. Supporting Mario Maker on MFGG could even draw people in and introduce the people searching for something with less boundaries to those engines. |
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| Author: | Super Mario WTL [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Mario Maker is decent enough and I've seen some cool creations despite its limitations. But it's irrelevant really, Mario Maker's status as the Official way to make Mario levels combined with Nintendo promoting it means it can be used as a gateway to get people on MFGG (who may then check out other tools, or fan games, etc.). Just because the most popular tool or a tool with a different audience isn't the "best" doesn't mean it should be disregarded- it surely has strengths in other areas. But even if there was no "It'd be good for MFGG's growth" reason for it, it's an official Mario game. We're Mario Fan Games Galaxy, it'd just be kinda weird if we didn't support certain official Mario games? I think that's a big defining difference between Mario Maker support and, for example, Hello's level maker. |
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| Author: | YoshiEgos [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
The allowance of Mario Maker could be great for those who want to make Mario levels quickly and neatly and aren't interested in such complicated editors and it's a great starting point to learn how a Mario Editor works. |
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| Author: | Willsaber [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Zero Kirby wrote: I never said Mario said Mario Maker was fun, just that Mario Maker made level design more accessible and fun to people who do not know a thing about ROM hacking or Game Maker and may not even care about ROM hacking or Game Maker, therefore we should still support Mario Maker then it simply isn't worth talking to you. "I never said Mario Maker was fun, only that it's fun to those people!" I mean, fair enough. That's a pedantic interpretation imo, but if that's your new narrative, I'll cede that point. Zero Kirby wrote: Quote: the MFGG community is constantly ****ing on tools that let people just focus on the levels. And that's exactly what you are doing. Lol no. My post very clearly agrees with Mario's point there. My assertion was that Mario Maker is inadequate for this purpose, because Hello Engine, Lunar Magic, and SMBX--three tools which can be merely used for Mario level designing--are superior options because they have a higher skill ceiling than Mario Maker. I reckon that very few people are going to get into Mario Maker, and springboard off of it into the greater realm of Mario fangaming, but it is a demonstrable fact that people have gotten in to Hello Engine, Lunar Magic, and SMBX to make Mario clones, but later innovated on their Mario fangames. Zero Kirby wrote: This level of elitism is poisonous to MFGG's future and isn't helping anyone. Oh gosh, you're right! In light of that, we should communally curtail Game Maker: Studio, and instead promote Scratch due to its lower entry barrier. Being a more accessible gamedev community will surely lead to more people being interested in MFGG, right? I mean, it's not like the reason MFGG's community is diminishing is because it has zero exposure in the fandom, and its community is so toxic that most newcomers get kicked out within weeks. It's because fangaming is too hard, apparently. |
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| Author: | Syaxamaphone [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
I think incorporating Super Mario Maker sharing would be really cool if we could pull it off. Not sure how big the SMM community still is tho. |
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| Author: | Kritter [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
Syaxamaphone wrote: Not sure how big the SMM community still is tho. I was going to say, doing something with Mario Maker on the website would've been better when it first launched, it could've done a lot to bring people to this community. It won't have much impact now other than to archive some peoples levels. |
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| Author: | Mit [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
it can still be used as a user-friendly way of making levels though, especially if the wii u is going to end up being dirt cheap sooner than later |
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| Author: | Willsaber [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
So far everybody's been talking about what Mario Maker fans could do for MFGG. But what can MFGG offer Mario Maker fans that they can't get on the well-established Subreddit and GameFAQ subforum? Why would they participate here? |
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| Author: | Pedigree [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
This is a gigantic derail. Mario mentioned Super Mario Maker solely as an example of level design that enables the average person to participate. It's a bit too late to try and draw in Super Mario Maker creators given that: 1. Wii U is dead and didn't have a huge following in the first place. 2. The Miiverse community has been shut down. This may not affect level sharing immediately, but eventually those servers will be dropped too. 3. Compared to rom hacking and fanmade engines you can plug levels into, the options are considered to be too restricted in Mario Maker. Having a section dedicated to a feature many simply won't have access to seems like a waste to me anyways. Instead you should focus on Mario's message that we should value level designers more than we do. |
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| Author: | Willsaber [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Allowing Rom Hacks |
What about graphics for ROMs? Would the Mainsite require that all sprite sheets be submitted in hackable formats, or would that be a separate submission type entirely? |
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