Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 64 posts ]  Reply to topicPost new topic 

Do you want rom hacks to be accepted on the mainsite?
Heck yeah!! 74%  74%  [ 29 ]
No sir, that sounds right unpleasant 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
Doesn't really matter to me 15%  15%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 39
 
Author Message
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:36 pm 
User avatar
I'll be your 1-Up boy.
Social Media Manager
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
If we allowed resources such as graphics specifically for romhacks, it'd be a new submission type.

_________________
also known as SonicProject
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:10 pm 
User avatar
The Dark Warrior
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
Sloshy wrote:
i voted no. part of the point of mfgg is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software. u cant really thrive off being a rom hacker
rom hacking has rly no room for growth. u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats

this is a quote from a reply on somebodys premade engine and it hits the nail right on the head
DJ Coco wrote:
you aren't contributing with actually teaching programmers, but just spoiling them

^ this is exactly the problem hosting rom hacks will contribute to. it will send a big message saying its ok to neglect pushing forward to improve development skill cuz u can just dl a rom editor and click around without a challenge


Times change... and I have several things I would like to respond to here.

Your first part there is fallacious in that you seem to assert that making fangames in which you are using game dev software such as Game Maker, Unity, and any of Clickteam's software "is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software." when that is just as true as when you are hacking an official game. May I present to you this ENTIRE forum section here as the proof needed that you can learn useful game development techniques because you get topics like those that can very well be applied to making a game, in spite of the focus being generally for hacking Super Mario World. Additonally you can abstract what you learn from hacking a game, be it that you use a graphics editor to sprite over the game's tilemaps, use level editors like LM to build stages, working with the processor which the game operates on to code your own songs...those can be abstracted with more convenient tools for bigger projects and no matter the method, be it hacking or not, the underlying theories that are respective to each area of game design cannot be overlooked.

sloshy wrote:
u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it.
- Utter bulls***, this is a personal problem you have when it comes to using Lunar Magic if you cant really develop your idea further when you dabbled in LM. Also nobody even said that you cant make a real career out of making Mario levels but level design itself is a job in gamedev studios and that you dont necessarily need to have formal education to achieve making a video game, though it helps. Also I should mention that this indie gamedev group used to work on Pokemon Prism for a time and are moving on to indie game development.

sloshy wrote:
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats
Oh the ever so-present meme on MFGG that was the dominant mindset regarding this community writing off games made with Hello Mario Engine 3-5, and a few of Gatete's engine for a time as bad....listen, its never the engine that encourages people to be lazy, its the people themselves who don't improve on their works and approach to things, instead finding complacency on where they are at. While I personally allow those people to be lazy, peers of mine disagree and I am not against those peers actively fighting against people being lazy because its human nature to strive for excellence. Also keep in mind that even on SMW Central where an entire community exists, you have people there that does not encourage people to be stagnant with your games, down to the design. Quite a shocker for a community that prides itself on hacking SMW, something you see as equivalent to people using pre-made engines right?!

I suggest you drop the mentality that MFGG is setting a bad precedent by disallowing rom-hacks and consider that the people who hack Mario games aren't that much different in essence to the people who take more of a step to program their own engines. We already crossed that bridge regarding accepting engine-made clones into the mainsite database for quite a while and that hasn't caused MFGG any harm to it's image. Both parties serve to make a fangame either as a tribute to their favorite entertainment series or as a launch point into something bigger, such as making an indie game or even a AAA game.


Last edited by DarkSideStrike on Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________
My DeviantArt: http://strikeforcer.deviantart.com/
My YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/sspp0310

ATTENTION! I am in need of coders to help fix Mario's physics for Mysterious Islandz. The game as it stands, is quite glitchy. If you are good at GM8 and is capable of reading FDE Exi's code, PM me!

Spoiler:


Image

I am the true darkness. MFGG stands in my way!
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:05 pm 
User avatar
Resident Ninnyhammer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
No Name wrote:
So... Every time a rom hack uploads to the main site... It should include the emulator??

Submission rules can be amended for ROM hacks.

sloshy wrote:
rom hacking has rly no room for growth

ROM hacking requires many of the same skills as using Game Maker. At the very least, one will need level design skills. If someone wants to make a hack that stands out, they'll need to make music and graphics as well. Adding new gameplay features requires knowledge of ASM, which isn't quite the same as writing code in GameMaker: Studio yet is still a form of programming.

sloshy wrote:
u cant make it a real career in the long run

I mean, I technically can't make fan gaming a real career in the long run either, but okay. Have you considered the possibility that many of us just see fan games as a hobby? Not everyone on MFGG has to be an indie/AAA game designer.

sloshy wrote:
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones

I doubt you know what you're talking about, to be frank. You can do more with ROM hacking than just making levels with vanilla assets.

_________________
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:40 pm 
User avatar
Am a girl
Member
[*]
[*]
>You can do more with ROM hacking than just making levels with vanilla assets.
even with vanilla mechanics you can do a lot more with smw then you can with just base hello engine

_________________
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImage
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:41 pm 
User avatar
Watashi Wa
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
ROMhacking is actually a really robust process. I'd put it right up there with Game Maker and Clickteam

_________________
My games | My twitter | My stream | Sprites Unlimited

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:00 pm 
User avatar
Kootie Patootie
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Yoshin wrote:
>You can do more with ROM hacking than just making levels with vanilla assets.
even with vanilla mechanics you can do a lot more with smw then you can with just base hello engine

You can? I always thought that Hello Engine had more features than vSMW. Though I suppose SMW makes up for it with an extensive amount of backgrounds and tilesets, whereas Hello Engine only has relatively few.

_________________
Image
My mains
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:34 pm 
Great Time Champion
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Cap'n Coconuts wrote:
No Name wrote:
So... Every time a rom hack uploads to the main site... It should include the emulator??

Submission rules can be amended for ROM hacks.

The way I proposed it, games would be required to be standalone. Hacks, however, would be under a different section and not require this.

_________________
Discord Groups
Image (closed) | Image
Projects
Image | Image | Image | Image
Profiles
Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image

Spoiler:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:07 pm 
User avatar
Always have a Shy-Guy in your avatar
Administrator
[A]
[S]
[W]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

If you wanted to expand MFGG's scope, creating a section on the mainsite for uploading ROM hacks would be a natural progression. It would broaden our horizons without straying too far from our basic mission of providing a place to share and discuss Mario fangames. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to add a ROM hacks section to the mainsite until lumaSMS launches. Adding new sections to TCSMS is an extremely painful process.

SMW Central seems to have most of the "market share" for the Mario ROM hacking scene, but having more competition wouldn't hurt.

I can't offer much more insight, since I've played only a handful of ROM hacks in the past eight years or so, and other people here are likely to be far more knowledgeable about ROM hacking in 2017. (I can also add that it's literally been years since I've seen a Hello Engine game from anyone other than Hello, although Gatete's engine is still seen from time to time.)

_________________
Course clear! You got a card.

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:09 am 
Great Time Champion
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
VinnyVideo wrote:
SMW Central seems to have most of the "market share" for the Mario ROM hacking scene, but having more competition wouldn't hurt.

As far as I can tell, SMW Central's mainsite tends to keep its focus on Super Mario World, with smaller sections dedicated to SM64 and Yoshi's Island. I figure MFGG could probably carve its own niche by being a "catch all" site for Mario hacks; accepting all but specializing in none.

_________________
Discord Groups
Image (closed) | Image
Projects
Image | Image | Image | Image
Profiles
Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image

Spoiler:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [zz]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:43 am 
User avatar
Member
[*]
[*]
What's about Nintendo and ROM hacks? They are "neutral" with about a 90% of fangames but with ROM hacks... It's another story...

 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:51 am 
User avatar
I'll be your 1-Up boy.
Social Media Manager
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
As long as we are just providing patches and not the source ROMs themselves or instructions on where you find them, Nintendo isn't going to care.

Please don't use fear to discourage change.

_________________
also known as SonicProject
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:16 pm 
User avatar
Member
[*]
[*]
Pedigree wrote:
Please don't use fear to discourage change.


How do you know that No Name wasn't simply addressing what they felt to be a legitimate risk? Mentioning such a thing doesn't necessarily mean that they're just trying to use scare-tactics to stop change.

Stop jumping to conclusions about people's motives based on such little context. I've noticed a few instances in which you've done this: This instance here, when you accused me of trying to talk down to people in Hotel Delfino the other day because I vocalized that an undeniably asinine post shouldn't even be given the time of day, and the time you accused someone of implying and making light of rape, just because they jokingly speculated that Peach and Bowser got intimate.

If you're attempting a noble and upstanding facade by casting people under a fabricated light in order to better fit your accusations, it's not working. If not, then you may need to think a bit more in depth before haphazardly pointing fingers.

In other news, I say yeah, they should be allowed for obvious reasons already mentioned.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm 
User avatar
The Dark Warrior
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
No Name wrote:
What's about Nintendo and ROM hacks? They are "neutral" with about a 90% of fangames but with ROM hacks... It's another story...


I'm with Ped on this one, please dont spread fear to stifle any valid change MFGGers are pushing. To illustrate my point here, even if Nintendo is or isn't neutral when it comes to using their IPs to make your own games, why haven't they shut down SMWC when Im sure their people internally are aware of that site's operation? SMWC has been hosting SMW hacks for a good 10 years going on 11 soon and I highly doubt Nintendo would just shut down a site like that for whatever reason they have. They pose no threat to Nintendo's bottom line. Neither does MFGG. We aren't competing against Nintendo to drive their IPs into our direction. Neither does SMWC.


Last edited by DarkSideStrike on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_________________
My DeviantArt: http://strikeforcer.deviantart.com/
My YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/sspp0310

ATTENTION! I am in need of coders to help fix Mario's physics for Mysterious Islandz. The game as it stands, is quite glitchy. If you are good at GM8 and is capable of reading FDE Exi's code, PM me!

Spoiler:


Image

I am the true darkness. MFGG stands in my way!
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [tr]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm 
User avatar
Thanks DonnieTheGuy!
Administrator
[A]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
I see literally no disadvantages of accepting ROM hacks, as long as we don't actively promote them, of course.

Face wrote:
How do you know that No Name wasn't simply addressing what they felt to be a legitimate risk? Mentioning such a thing doesn't necessarily mean that they're just trying to use scare-tactics to stop change.

Stop jumping to conclusions about people's motives based on such little context. I've noticed a few instances in which you've done this: This instance here, when you accused me of trying to talk down to people in Hotel Delfino the other day because I vocalized that an undeniably asinine post shouldn't even be given the time of day, and the time you accused someone of implying and making light of rape, just because they jokingly speculated that Peach and Bowser got intimate.

If you're attempting a noble and upstanding facade by casting people under a fabricated light in order to better fit your accusations, it's not working. If not, then you may need to think a bit more in depth before haphazardly pointing fingers.

In other news, I say yeah, they should be allowed for obvious reasons already mentioned.
Not that I disagree, but I don't think it's really the best idea to start discussing that here.

_________________
Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:19 pm 
User avatar
Am a girl
Member
[*]
[*]
>as long as we don't actively promote them
whats the issue with promoting romhacks
if we're gonna have them as a section on the site should we not promote them?

_________________
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImage
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:27 pm 
User avatar
Watashi Wa
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Absolutely promote those ROMhacks. imo messing with the code isn't any more legally ambiguous than messing with the art and music

_________________
My games | My twitter | My stream | Sprites Unlimited

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [gb]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:25 pm 
User avatar
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
Honestly, Nintendo are about as neutral with ROM hacks as fan games. Seriously, check my list of shut down projects:

https://gamingreinvented.com/nintendoar ... omplaints/

Out of these, here are the fan games (non hacks) shut down (or that they attempted to shut down):

  1. Super Mario Bros X
  2. Super Mario 64 HD (Bob-omb Battlefield demo version)
  3. Zelda Ocarina of Time 2D
  4. Super Mario Remaker
  5. Super Fangame Maker
  6. Zelda Maker
  7. Pokemon Evoas
  8. PokeNet
  9. Princess Rescue
  10. AM2R
  11. Pokemon Uranium
  12. No Mario's Sky

And the mods shut down (or attempted to shut down)

  1. Project M
  2. Pokemon Prism
  3. Super Mario 64 Online
  4. Zelda Twilight Princess HD
  5. Halo CE Zelda Mod

Full Screen Mario is ambiguous here, since it's technically a fan game, but remakes Mario 1 with virtually no differences.

Either way, the results are that fan game and ROM hack shut downs occur at about the same rate (read, rather rarely) and only somewhat happen a bit more than with other fan works (of which movies, an anime adaptation and SMB Z were all hit).

So promote hacks like any other fan game; Nintendo clearly treats them no differently themselves.

_________________
Now starting Gaming Reinvented, which is looking for members! We review fan games too!

https://gamingreinvented.com/

Also, for Wario fans, check out Wario Forums today!
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:30 pm 
User avatar
Member
[*]
[*]
Mors wrote:
Not that I disagree, but I don't think it's really the best idea to start discussing that here.


If not here, then where?

Issues such as this are best addressed right then and there in the midst of the most recent occurrence.
If you suggest PMing the user in question, I'm afraid I disagree. Peer-mediation and second opinions are important when addressing these issues with a user, as there's always a chance when PMing said user in question, that they will be more stubborn and unwilling to see any side but their own while behind closed doors.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:44 pm 
User avatar
I'll be your 1-Up boy.
Social Media Manager
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Discussing me personally has absolutely nothing to do with Allowing Rom Hacks. It is 100% off topic and your earlier post was straight up flammatory.

Please drop it.

_________________
also known as SonicProject
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: Allowing Rom Hacks
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:06 pm 
Great Time Champion
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Yeah, please do discuss this in private, if at all. It's pretty irrelevant.

_________________
Discord Groups
Image (closed) | Image
Projects
Image | Image | Image | Image
Profiles
Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image | Image

Spoiler:
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  [ 64 posts ]  Reply to topicPost new topic 


Who is online

Users browsing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group