Sloshy wrote:
i voted no. part of the point of mfgg is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software. u cant really thrive off being a rom hacker
rom hacking has rly no room for growth. u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats
this is a quote from a reply on somebodys premade engine and it hits the nail right on the head
DJ Coco wrote:
you aren't contributing with actually teaching programmers, but just spoiling them
^ this is exactly the problem hosting rom hacks will contribute to. it will send a big message saying its ok to neglect pushing forward to improve development skill cuz u can just dl a rom editor and click around without a challenge
Times change... and I have several things I would like to respond to here.
Your first part there is fallacious in that you seem to assert that making fangames in which you are using game dev software such as Game Maker, Unity, and any of Clickteam's software "is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software." when that is just as true as when you are hacking an official game. May I present to you
this ENTIRE forum section here as the proof needed that you can learn useful game development techniques because you get topics like those that can very well be applied to making a game, in spite of the focus being generally for hacking Super Mario World. Additonally you can abstract what you learn from hacking a game, be it that you use a graphics editor to sprite over the game's tilemaps, use level editors like LM to build stages, working with the processor which the game operates on to code your own songs...those can be abstracted with more convenient tools for bigger projects and no matter the method, be it hacking or not, the underlying theories that are respective to each area of game design cannot be overlooked.
sloshy wrote:
u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it.
- Utter bulls***, this is a personal problem you have when it comes to using Lunar Magic if you cant really develop your idea further when you dabbled in LM. Also nobody even said that you cant make a real career out of making Mario levels but level design itself is a job in gamedev studios and that you dont necessarily need to have formal education to achieve making a video game, though it helps. Also I should mention that
this indie gamedev group used to work on Pokemon Prism for a time and are moving on to indie game development.
sloshy wrote:
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats
Oh the ever so-present meme on MFGG that was the dominant mindset regarding this community writing off games made with Hello Mario Engine 3-5, and a few of Gatete's engine for a time as bad....listen, its never the engine that encourages people to be lazy, its the people themselves who don't improve on their works and approach to things, instead finding complacency on where they are at. While I personally allow those people to be lazy, peers of mine disagree and I am not against those peers actively fighting against people being lazy because its human nature to strive for excellence. Also keep in mind that even on SMW Central where an entire community exists, you have people there that
does not encourage people to be stagnant with your games, down to the design. Quite a shocker for a community that prides itself on hacking SMW, something you see as equivalent to people using pre-made engines right?!
I suggest you drop the mentality that MFGG is setting a bad precedent by disallowing rom-hacks and consider that the people who hack Mario games aren't that much different in essence to the people who take more of a step to program their own engines. We already crossed that bridge regarding accepting engine-made clones into the mainsite database for quite a while and that hasn't caused MFGG any harm to it's image. Both parties serve to make a fangame either as a tribute to their favorite entertainment series or as a launch point into something bigger, such as making an indie game or even a AAA game.
[quote="Sloshy"]i voted no. part of the point of mfgg is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software. u cant really thrive off being a rom hacker
rom hacking has rly no room for growth. u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it
encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats
this is a quote from a reply on somebodys premade engine and it hits the nail right on the head
[quote="DJ Coco"]you aren't contributing with actually teaching programmers, but just spoiling them[/quote]
^ this is exactly the problem hosting rom hacks will contribute to. it will send a big message saying its ok to neglect pushing forward to improve development skill cuz u can just dl a rom editor and click around without a challenge[/quote]
Times change... and I have several things I would like to respond to here.
Your first part there is fallacious in that you seem to assert that making fangames in which you are using game dev software such as Game Maker, Unity, and any of Clickteam's software "is to help ppl learn game development techniques. even making fangames u still learn crucial and universal info that can be passed on to a legit carreer because theyre still legit software." when that is just as true as when you are hacking an official game. May I present to you [url=https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewforum&f=8]this ENTIRE forum section here[/url] as the proof needed that you can learn useful game development techniques because you get topics like those that can very well be applied to making a game, in spite of the focus being generally for hacking Super Mario World. Additonally you can abstract what you learn from hacking a game, be it that you use a graphics editor to sprite over the game's tilemaps, use level editors like LM to build stages, working with the processor which the game operates on to code your own songs...those can be abstracted with more convenient tools for bigger projects and no matter the method, be it hacking or not, the underlying theories that are respective to each area of game design cannot be overlooked.
[quote="sloshy"]u cant make it a real career in the long run and u point and click to make ur levels and u have a mario game that anyone can make. ive worked with lunar magic once and this single time i managed to make something sufficient. but the idea that any1 can make it made it so boring that i didnt even release it.[/quote] - Utter bulls***, this is a personal problem you have when it comes to using Lunar Magic if you cant really develop your idea further when you dabbled in LM. Also nobody even said that you cant make a real career out of making Mario levels but level design itself is a job in gamedev studios and that you dont necessarily need to have formal education to achieve making a video game, though it helps. Also I should mention that [url=https://twitter.com/nsomniart]this indie gamedev group[/url] used to work on Pokemon Prism for a time and are moving on to indie game development.
[quote="sloshy"]encouraging rom hacks on mfgg is the same as encouraging making hello clones and will rsult in more boring clones made from point and clicks that could be amde by literally anyone. this encourages lazyness and complacency that mfgg combats[/quote] Oh the ever so-present meme on MFGG that was the dominant mindset regarding this community writing off games made with Hello Mario Engine 3-5, and a few of Gatete's engine for a time as bad....listen, its never the engine that encourages people to be lazy, its the people themselves who don't improve on their works and approach to things, instead finding complacency on where they are at. While I personally allow those people to be lazy, peers of mine disagree and I am not against those peers actively fighting against people being lazy because its human nature to strive for excellence. Also keep in mind that even on SMW Central where an entire community exists, you have people there that [url=https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=91705]does not encourage people to be stagnant with your games, down to the design.[/url] Quite a shocker for a community that prides itself on hacking SMW, something you see as equivalent to people using pre-made engines right?!
I suggest you drop the mentality that MFGG is setting a bad precedent by disallowing rom-hacks and consider that the people who hack Mario games aren't that much different in essence to the people who take more of a step to program their own engines. We already crossed that bridge regarding accepting engine-made clones into the mainsite database for quite a while and that hasn't caused MFGG any harm to it's image. Both parties serve to make a fangame either as a tribute to their favorite entertainment series or as a launch point into something bigger, such as making an indie game or even a AAA game.