Lately there's been plenty of discussion about ways to make MFGG a better place. There's been lots of talk about possible improvements to the forums, and some proposals for upgrading the mainsite. But there hasn't been much talk about giving some love to MFGG's under-appreciated stepsibling-in-law: the MFGG Wiki. Throughout MFGG's history, there's only been a handful of active contributors to the Wiki at any given time. However, [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges]activity on the Wiki has been especially weak lately[/url]. What do you recommend to make the Wiki more useful, more up-to-date, and more active? (Also, for those concerned, the MFGG Wiki is a useful historical archive, so nuking it is not on the table.) A few things to consider: [size=150][b]Outdated stuff[/b][/size] [img]http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxMzAx/z/LlYAAOSwstxU5UAO/$_1.JPG[/img] This is where you come in! There are [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Special:Statistics]1,680 pages on the MFGG Wiki[/url], and many of them haven't been updated in years. A lot of information is outdated, incomplete, or simply not very useful. I don't think I'll get around to cleaning up every page on the Wiki, but if we work together, it wouldn't be too hard to improve a few pages that could use improving! If you'd like to get started, [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Mario_Fan_Games_Galaxy_Wiki:Current_events#Handy_Dandy_Links]here's some things you can do[/url] to make the MFGG Wiki a better place. If you'd like to create a new page, see if there are any notable newer members or recent [url=http://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Game_of_the_Month]Game of the Month winners[/url] that deserve to be documented on the MFGG Wiki. If you don't know how, [url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12078&start=340]post here[/url] or shoot me a PM. [size=150][b]Lack of staff[/b][/size] Right now, [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop]only four people have admin powers on the Wiki[/url], and three of them are inactive or have purely technical roles. This means I'm the only Wiki Sysop. I'm pretty good about checking MFGG every day, but considering that I'm also an admin on the forums and mainsite, and I'm busy with grad school, two jobs, volunteer work, and my occasional bouts of game-making, I don't have as much time to devote to the Wiki as it deserves. This means we could use a new Wiki Sysop or two. I'm not going to set up a formal application process this time since the Wiki is a more specialized organ of MFGG. However, if you're reasonably active on the MFGG Wiki, you're level-headed and diplomatic, and you have a basic knowledge of MediaWiki, we'd love to have you on board as MFGG's Next Top Wiki Sysop. [size=150][b]Account approval and spam[/b][/size] Here's another problem that's holding back the MFGG Wiki. A few years ago, the MFGG Wiki faced a deluge of spambots. On some days, these spambots would create multiple junk pages for wonderful products and services like shady foreign dating sites, forex scams, and impotency elixirs. We grew tired of cleaning up this rubbish every morning, so Guinea installed a Wiki plugin that stopped these spambots. However, this plugin also requires admins to manually approve new accounts. We're supposed to receive a notification when a new user registers, but sometimes this notification doesn't appear on the Wiki like it's supposed to. For that reason, new accounts can sit unapproved for weeks. This is not good. So we have three options: 1. Do nothing. 2. Get rid of this plugin, at the risk of letting spambots have a field day 3. Promote a new Wiki Sysop who can manually check the "Confirm New Accounts" page at least once a day to make sure that there aren't any legitimate account requests sitting in the queue. Please suggest and discuss away.

I think the biggest issue is that most pages, even recently updated ones, are very poorly written. Idk how to practically resolve this.

I would suggest: -Keep only notable member pages such as previous staff members and those relevant to a significant change in MFGG's history -Remove any drama pages that do not represent a significant change/shift in MFGG's history -Remove scrapped/abandoned fangame pages -I would also recommend only keeping noteworthy fangames such as those covered by the news, the community fan game projects, those that won competitions and game of the month but I understand if people are too attached to those. -Add sections with guides on how to do basic, commonly asked things whether it be in development of fangames, sprites, etc. More suggestions to come later.

I personally wouldn't want to see any member pages removed, everyone is a part of the history here if they want to add themselves and their contributions to the wiki. I also wouldn't remove scrapped fangames (or any) because they're still a part of the history of fangaming. Case in point: [url]https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=MFGG_10th_Anniversary_Time_Capsule[/url] Adding guides isn't a bad idea.

[quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=512736#p512736]Pedigree[/url]"]-Add sections with guides on how to do basic, commonly asked things whether it be in development of fangames, sprites, etc.[/quote] Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I've actually been trying to work on a draft for a "welcome to Mario fangaming" tutorial and would be more than happy to help in this regard.

[quote="Willsaber"]I think the biggest issue is that most pages, even recently updated ones, are very poorly written. Idk how to practically resolve this.[/quote] This is where y'all come in! I'm the only Wiki Sysop now, and considering that we have over 1,600 articles on the Wiki, it's not feasible for me to go in and rewrite all of them. The MFGG Wiki is a community endeavor, so if you see a page that's badly-written, incomplete, or outdated, you can go in and fix it! [quote="Pedigree"]Keep only notable member pages such as previous staff members and those relevant to a significant change in MFGG's history[/quote] The MFGG Wiki chronicles a lot of fun memories from MFGG's past, and I don't see a point in gutting it. However, I'm totally OK with removing member pages for members who never did much of anything. There are quite a few member articles - and game articles, too - that fall into that category. If you see an article that's especially pointless, feel free to stick a {{delete}} or {{needsattention}} tag on it. [quote="Pedigree"]Add sections with guides on how to do basic, commonly asked things whether it be in development of fangames, sprites, etc.[/quote] This so much. [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Category:Tutorials]I made a handful of tutorials[/url] back in 2013, but no one has made any since then. If you'd like to make tutorials that will help people get better at making games, graphics, or music, or gain a better understanding of fangaming, please do so!

[quote="Pedigree"]I would suggest: -Keep only notable member pages such as previous staff members and those relevant to a significant change in MFGG's history -Remove any drama pages that do not represent a significant change/shift in MFGG's history -Remove scrapped/abandoned fangame pages -I would also recommend only keeping noteworthy fangames such as those covered by the news, the community fan game projects, those that won competitions and game of the month but I understand if people are too attached to those. -Add sections with guides on how to do basic, commonly asked things whether it be in development of fangames, sprites, etc. More suggestions to come later.[/quote] Removing pages shouldn't really be considered an option. We want to thoroughly record MFGG history, not just put together a summary of it.

[quote="Pedigree"]-Keep only notable member pages such as previous staff members and those relevant to a significant change in MFGG's history -Remove any drama pages that do not represent a significant change/shift in MFGG's history -Remove scrapped/abandoned fangame pages -I would also recommend only keeping noteworthy fangames such as those covered by the news, the community fan game projects, those that won competitions and game of the month but I understand if people are too attached to those.[/quote]I don't get how deleting 80% of the pages would improve anything. Most of the pages there are a part of MFGG's history, even if they didn't have an impact on MFGG as a whole. BUT I agree with getting rid of the pages that either don't belong in MFGG Wiki or don't have any actual purpose. Like [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Sonic]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=GNU/Linux]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=SFML]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Hoax]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=OpenGL]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Tokenization]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=SDL]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Warez]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=WINE]this[/url] or especially [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Current_events]this[/url]. User pages that have too little information should be removed too, as long as there's no way to learn more about the user and the user isn't very notable. Like [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Gemgirl]this[/url], or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Akruru]this[/url]. Same for fangames with very little information. Also, I think promoting 1 or 2 new Wiki Sysops would be a good idea. If that happens I'll send an application, even tho I'm not that good at writing. EDIT: Whoops, I'm dumb. I didn't see the part with "I'm not going to set up a formal application process this time since the Wiki is a more specialized organ of MFGG". Then I guess I'm interested.

[quote="Pedigree"]I would suggest: -Remove scrapped/abandoned fangame pages More suggestions to come later.[/quote] No, considering the fact that letting scrapped/abandoned fangame pages stay is important for MFGG history even though if it's bad.

There is absolutely no historical value to scrapped/abandoned fangames and outdated member pages with little to no relevant information. What is the point of removing such pages? The wiki is cluttered with information that is unnecessary and of no viable use... not to mention the countless outdated pages that will likely receive no new information. Keeping scrapped fangames and member pages that hold no relevance is the equivalent of hoarding. Instead of having massive catalogs of random members and fangames that didn't make any significant impact, you could instead dedicate sections to the guides that I mentioned, which are pretty much being universally praised in this thread, as well as similar content that would serve our fangame focus better than "here's billy and Mario clone #9138402138409238490128 made with a copy/pasted Hello engine and here's some pointless drama he caused and then we never heard from him again". If there are scrapped fangames that made an impact, keep them. But holding onto dead pages for the sake of grandfathering such things in to maintain history is ridiculous. You can keep a decent section on MFGG history without hundreds to one thousand pages cataloging every single insignificant tiny thing that ever happened. The Wiki can be a valuable resource or it can be a collection of mostly pointless articles. Which would you prefer?

To be fair, other pages with likely more historical value have themselves been deleted in the past. I don't think it's a terrible idea to delete scrapped fangame pages - I would probably delete mine, for example.

[quote="Pedigree"]There is absolutely no historical value to scrapped/abandoned fangames and outdated member pages with little to no relevant information. [/quote] [size=130]Whoops, I meant archive.[/size] [img]https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/912accb5_picard-facepalm.png?w=150[/img]

Okay then let me make another suggestion, a compromise if you will. Make the current wiki archive.wiki.mfgg.net and create a new wiki at wiki.mfgg.net that is more heavily focused on fangaming/development guides and a condensed MFGG history. This way we can start fresh without all the work suggested in the OP to update and remove outdated, irrelevant content and those who want the old pages can still access them.

It's my perspective that no articles that contain historical information should be deleted. The only way that these articles can be even misinterpreted as an issue if if you're bored and pressing "Random Article" over and over and you keep finding uneventful fangames.

Most member pages are filled with self-bragging and drama if they even have any information at all, much less any history. And as for Fangames, not every game submitted to the site needs its own article especially if it's yet another clone. Fangames really should be limited to comp entries and games of the month winners imo. Games that leave an impact like Super Mario Blue Twilight which got featured on G4 as another example. As for claiming you'd have to click random article to stumble on useless articles, the MFGGers and Fangames groups are the top two listed "Important Groups".

[quote="Pedigree"]Most member pages are filled with self-bragging and drama if they even have any information at all, much less any history. And as for Fangames, not every game submitted to the site needs its own article especially if it's yet another clone. Fangames really should be limited to comp entries and games of the month winners imo. Games that leave an impact like Super Mario Blue Twilight which got featured on G4 as another example. As for claiming you'd have to click random article to stumble on useless articles, the MFGGers and Fangames groups are the top two listed "Important Groups".[/quote] I just disagree. My vision is different. We've lost forum history. There's years of MFGG history that's just absolutely gone. The IPB boards can be searched through theoretically, and I'm working on a script for viewing the boards without using IPB software, but as of this moment it's as good as lost. Having a wiki that has historical information about a user or a game, whether or not it's biased, is important.

[quote="Pedigree"]The Wiki can be a valuable resource or it can be a collection of mostly pointless articles. Which would you prefer?[/quote]Both. The wiki can have both articles of unfinshed games no one cares about and articles of games that left an impact. The only thing matters is the quality of the page (and the fact if it belongs to MFGG Wiki or not). If the page is low quality or have barely any content, and there's no way to improve it, then let's delete it. But if the page is well written then there's no point of deleting the page. Even if it's a fangame no one cares about it's still a very small part of MFGG's history. and deleting it would only mean losing it. We wouldn't gain anything. I think the pages we should delete are pages like [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Goomball]this[/url], not [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Shell_Bounce]this[/url] or [url=https://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=DAIRANTO!!_Mario_Bros._DDX]this[/url]. Also, making a second wiki is a terrible idea considering the community is barely interested in contributing the first one. EDIT: [quote="Pedigree"]Most member pages are filled with self-bragging and drama if they even have any information at all, much less any history.[/quote]Drama is still a part of the history and self bragging can be fixed easily.

i think recording drama and events just allows them to be brought back up again. personally i'd rather the wiki be a resource that can go into logging guides on how to go about coding specific things and how it's handled in official games. the [url=http://info.sonicretro.org]sonic retro wiki[/url] is a good example of a good balance of site content and game resources.

I totally agree that wiki should have a lot more of things like that, but I think having site events recorded there is equally important. When I first read about the site's history there I remember finding it really interesting and intriguing to read, probably because I've never seen events in a website recorded in a somewhat detailed way like that before. Actually, we can choose a Mario game and write about how specific things were handled in it, like the camera or hitboxes. And maybe add some small GameMaker tutorials about those too, like a section about how to implement those things. Maybe we should redesign the main page and make it a bit more focused on tutorials, guides and the general history of the site rather than the users or the games.

There's a lot of MFGG history I only know about because of the wiki. And it's important to keep this kind of stuff around, especially when we reference it occasionally. I'm going to have to say that I am extremely against any kind of Wiki pruning.