[quote]The MWers joined en masse[/quote] We didn't. We all had accounts. A couple members at most joined and if we want to pretend that MW posting on MFGG counts as part of the problem, that's a narrative that I definitely do not support. [quote]and immediately made a lot of topics about controversial matters (LGBT issues...)[/quote] Are you not allowed to ask if other members are LGBT on Mario Fan Games Galaxy? That's literally all that thread was. [quote]as well as a whole bunch of spam/joke topics in a board that really wasn't designed for PPP-like topics.[/quote] Please do describe what you mean by this since the General Chat is filled with open PPP-like topics. Nobody knows what makes the topics deleted and locked "too PPP-like" in comparison to other threads your staff has allowed, especially when your staff has not made any statements in any of the threads deleted or locked. [quote]They also made some nasty and highly personal remarks about various MFGGers.[/quote] "They". Maybe a couple members tops. We don't condone "highly personal remarks" but please don't write a narrative that MW joined MFGG to attack other MFGGers. [quote]You'd have to be incredibly naive - or totally unaware of the possibility that different communities might have different cultures - to think that such behavior wouldn't trigger a reaction. On the other hand, several MFGGers reacted in a very ugly way, and that's not acceptable either. And on the staff's end, we definitely could've handled this better with better internal and external communication and a more engaged moderation team.[/quote] Let's not downplay the events and make it look like MFGG members have a much lesser hand in this explosion. 1. Vitiman making an anti-MW joke in BlasterMaster's thread for no reason plus 10 pages of "Minus World" mentions on MFGG when you search the term. This is not the first and last time I will see someone on MFGG talking crap about MW. MW shouldn't have this much relevance to your forum, so at the very least you should be handling these as shitposts or an outside dispute. Best case scenario, the staff starts reeling people in on the MW bashing instead of encouraging it because they find it amusing *ahem*Coco*ahem*. 2. Yrr joined because she is thinking about making a sequel to her Mario fangame Aftermath. She wanted to talk with other LGBT so she made a thread asking who on MFGG might be LGBT. The result? Psid coming into the thread to spread misinformation and attack LGBT for making a choice to be gay for brownie points plus other bullshit. It was later revealed in CFP chat he did it for the lulz but for some reason this reveal means it's MW's fault for taking the bait. No, this is not how it should work. It also took hours for the moderators to handle the situation and the result was to lock the thread and give Psid a slap on the wrist. 3. To make matters worse, someone vandalized the CFP documents and was impersonating Yrr. 4. Staff banned Zelma for nothing not once but twice. Both bans violations of MFGG's own warning policies. Zelma also did not break any rules and was actively communicating with DJ Coco to ask what he is allowed to post. Zelma's bans and the confusion over what's allowed in General Chat are CLEAR MFGG problems and not exclusive to MW members. While Zelma was banned twice for shitposts, I should mention that nothing was done about members like Kritter who were constantly making shitpost replies to suggestion threads. 5. Gato locked a bunch of unresolved threads for no reason and issued warnings to people who provided any additional feedback on topics he deemed not worth discussing. Gato also gloated about these actions and threatened to ban me in the MW Discord if I didn't stop posting suggestion threads. Many of those unresolved threads are still locked, by the way. 6. Let's not forget that a Global Mod here made an angry thread on MW in which he inadvertently (or at least he claims it's inadvertently), repeatedly implies that MW members are 12 year old unstables. https://minus.world/showthread.php?tid=2663 These are just the highlights of MFGG's fault in the matter. Please do not create such a narrative that MW has most of the blame. It is not constructive and will contribute to ignoring problems that you could otherwise resolve. To me, it looks like the events were not properly reviewed and that you might have simply accepted either DJ Coco's or Gato's account of the situation. Both of those accounts are obviously going to be biased, just for the record. [quote]MW measures its success by the number of posts made[/quote] This is not true. Please do not spread misinformation. [quote]MW's community is especially sensitive to mistreatment of marginalized groups, and while we certainly don't approve of such behavior on MFGG, our moderation team tends to take the position that if you're feeding the trolls (or cussing them out), you're part of the problem too.[/quote] This narrative you're writing is ESPECIALLY PROBLEMATIC. We are not "especially sensitive" to mistreatment of marginalized groups. We simply have rules in place to prevent it, as is now the [u]STANDARD[/u] on the internet. Whether this mistreatment comes from trolls or not is [u]not relevant[/u]. And to ask someone whose life is filled with such bigotry to ignore someone gaybashing them is easier said than done. I highly recommend you read a couple of my posts in this topic so you can understand my point of view. If you want to make MFGG a better place, maybe start with taking some responsibility for your own actions and not writing a narrative that shifts the blame. Don't disregard feedback because you don't like the tone either. Believe it or not, most of the MW members who posted here do want MFGG to succeed. To suggest otherwise is dumb, after all many of us have a significant portions of our lives in this place. If you want to keep The Split memes alive, despite the fact most of you weren't even there for The Split, then I really don't understand you but at least don't attack our character or misrepresent our community for the sake of it. MFGG is better than this, or at least it used to be.

[quote="Pedigree"][quote]They also made some nasty and highly personal remarks about various MFGGers.[/quote] "They". Maybe a couple members tops. We don't condone "highly personal remarks" but please don't write a narrative that MW joined MFGG to attack other MFGGers.[/quote] Meanwhile, a single trolling MFGG member represents a massive anti-LGBT sentiment on this forum.

[quote="Pedigree"]Best case scenario, the staff starts reeling people in on the MW bashing instead of encouraging it because they find it amusing *ahem*Coco*ahem*.[/quote]Please don't act like I'm encouraging MW bashing when I am not. All I did was say "I should probably lock this thread", and that post wasn't implying "It should be locked but I am getting kicks out of the argument". I just wasn't sure whether to lock it, but I felt like the argument hadn't escalated far enough to warrant a lock yet. But it's interesting you bring that up, because HylianDev locked it later on and got shit for doing so. Also, Zelma definitely deserved the permaban. He only posted threads of no value, that would've been fine if we had a PPP - but we don't. We told him to stop, but he kept doing it and trollingly reported other topics of similar value. Even in the past, Zelma has done nothing but troll and shitpost. I could've just kept giving him little warns until he maxes out the warn levels, but there is absolutely no reason to prolong a ban when there were clearly no intentions of him ever trying to post something serious. This is not just my stance on the subject, either. Even if that isn't clearly stated in the rules that doing nothing but shitpost gets you banned, that should be common sense.

[quote="Magnemania"][quote="Pedigree"][quote]They also made some nasty and highly personal remarks about various MFGGers.[/quote] "They". Maybe a couple members tops. We don't condone "highly personal remarks" but please don't write a narrative that MW joined MFGG to attack other MFGGers.[/quote] Meanwhile, a single trolling MFGG member represents a massive anti-LGBT sentiment on this forum.[/quote] I didn't say that but there are plenty of people enabling him and blaming LGBT for getting upset, so don't even go there.

[quote="DJ Coco"][quote="Pedigree"]Best case scenario, the staff starts reeling people in on the MW bashing instead of encouraging it because they find it amusing *ahem*Coco*ahem*.[/quote]Please don't act like I'm encouraging MW bashing when I am not. All I did was say "I should probably lock this thread", and that post wasn't implying "It should be locked but I am getting kicks out of the argument". I just wasn't sure whether to lock it, but I felt like the argument hadn't escalated far enough to warrant a lock yet. But it's interesting you bring that up, because HylianDev locked it later on and got **** for doing so. Also, Zelma definitely deserved the permaban. He only posted threads of no value, that would've been fine if we had a PPP - but we don't. We told him to stop, but he kept doing it and trollingly reported other topics of similar value. Even in the past, Zelma has done nothing but troll and ****post. I could've just kept giving him little warns until he maxes out the warn levels, but there is absolutely no reason to prolong a ban when there were clearly no intentions of him ever trying to post something serious. This is not just my stance on the subject, either. Even if that isn't clearly stated in the rules that doing nothing but ****post gets you banned, that should be common sense.[/quote] Definitely deserved a permaban for rules you flat out just admitted don't exist and ignoring own warning policies. :confused: Hmm, that's an interesting point of view.

Yeah, MFGG isn't a country that needs to stick to paragraphs clearly defined by the law. If you are just trying to find loopholes in the rules and abuse them, I'm not playing along. I agree the rules could be better written and it's definitely something to keep working on, but that doesn't mean you can get away with it if you're just out to troll.

there shouldn't be a rule against shitposting because there is no proper way to define what is or isn't a shitpost and that can only end in disaster. if there's no other place for "silly" threads to go then the GC is a good place to put them while we wait for a PPP-like board to get put up.

You don't permaban people for rules that don't exist especially when you haven't defined what shitposting is and people, [u]including your own MFGG members[/u], are confused by your standards for what shitposting is.

[quote="Pedigree"]Definitely deserved a permaban for rules you flat out just admitted don't exist and ignoring own warning policies. :confused: Hmm, that's an interesting point of view.[/quote] Here's another interesting point of view: Maybe the reason Zelma got perma'd is because he showed up to post multiple threads that are impossible to contribute to without shitposting, aka they're garbage. Then when he was warned to stop, he doubled down on his actions. He was banned for this behaviour before and quite frankly, I'm wondering why he was even unbanned to begin with when this behaviour proves he doesn't intend to contribute to MFGG in any way besides shitposting and pissing off the admins.

[quote="Vertette"]Maybe the reason Zelma got perma'd is because he showed up to post multiple threads that are impossible to contribute to without ****posting, aka they're garbage. Then when he was warned to stop, he doubled down on his actions. He was banned for this behaviour before and quite frankly, I'm wondering why he was even unbanned to begin with when this behaviour proves he doesn't intend to contribute to MFGG in any way besides ****posting and pissing off the admins.[/quote] That's an interesting opinion. If you can't come up with something other than a shitpost to post, then the thread is worthless. Shall I compile a list of threads currently open (including yours) that meet this very well-defined criteria?

[quote="Pedigree"][quote="Vertette"]Maybe the reason Zelma got perma'd is because he showed up to post multiple threads that are impossible to contribute to without ****posting, aka they're garbage. Then when he was warned to stop, he doubled down on his actions. He was banned for this behaviour before and quite frankly, I'm wondering why he was even unbanned to begin with when this behaviour proves he doesn't intend to contribute to MFGG in any way besides ****posting and pissing off the admins.[/quote] That's an interesting opinion. If you can't come up with something other than a ****post to post, then the thread is worthless. Shall I compile a list of threads currently open (including yours) that meet this very well-defined criteria?[/quote] You have said you'd compile such a list before. Feel free. Keep in mind that this is how I see it, though, and does not reflect any opinions of the staff.

[quote="DJ Coco"]Even if that isn't clearly stated in the rules that doing nothing but shitpost gets you banned, that should be common sense.[/quote] why does mfgg even have a ruleset and warning policy if you're just going to make shit up on a whim EDIT: give me a sec to clarify: this is an internet forum. the forum moderators are perfectly within their rights to just not have rules altogether and do whatever the hell they want. likewise, the members are free to notice the flagrant misdirection and incompetence and leave the forum, just like plenty of people already have and continue to do so. so you can absolutely do whatever you want, and your userbase will absolutely continue to disappear.

I would really appreciate if admins stopped blaming all of the Minus World members when very few acted poorly and many more acted better than the majority of the MFGG staff during this ordeal.

[quote="Magnemania"][quote="Pedigree"][quote]They also made some nasty and highly personal remarks about various MFGGers.[/quote] "They". Maybe a couple members tops. We don't condone "highly personal remarks" but please don't write a narrative that MW joined MFGG to attack other MFGGers.[/quote] Meanwhile, a single trolling MFGG member represents a massive anti-LGBT sentiment on this forum.[/quote] There have been several instances of MFGGers making discriminatory comments and getting away with it with a slap on the wrist at best. Even Psid, who explicitly did so in attempt to troll LGBT members and make them feel unwelcome, got hardly any punishment at all. This is not conducive to an LGBT friendly board.

so is this ever gonna end or are you guys just gonna keep arguing

Does anyone have an example of Minus World members not immediately jumping to each other's defense as soon as any controversy occurs? I would like to perceive this less as a war, as we do have Mit willing to listen to the MW perspective and I would hope that equivalents exist on the other side. Since this post sounds fairly anti-MW, allow me to link some posts created recently that do contribute to the site: [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18941&start=100]DreiDreiDesert posted positive feedback on Paper Mario Colors of Creation[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19846&start=20]BlasterMaster provided some positive reinforcement, DreiDreiDesert offered constructive feedback on Pocket Smasher Guys[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19527&start=60]DreiDreiDesert provided constructive criticism on Lovintendo's spritework[/url] If we expand the focus to discussion with the social boards that is neither political, involves discussion of modifying the forums, and is not intended primarily as a joke... [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20165]Blastermaster posted an inoffensive joke response to Parakarry's discussion of drinking water[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20133]An assortment of Minus World members provided relevant information/perspectives on the legality of fangames[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20098]Super Mario WTL contributes to the discussion on online threats.[/url] And while it was primarily a joke, I very much enjoyed the [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20101]petition to cease development of mario's sticker stage[/url] topic. The joke had a fair amount of effort put into it, was phrased in a way not to offend anyone, and directly correlated to the goings-on of the site.

I also posted a fangame for Christmas last year, haven't had enough time to make anything new though.

@magnemania: "inoffensive joke response" i was 100% serious, i don't see how you could possibly interpret that post as a joke as far as not being a hivemind, in my sticker stage thread people responded to criticism in very different ways. i just ignored it, i think drei, pedigree and some others responded more directly in a debate format. the same thing happened in a few other threads, though many of them are locked and deleted at this point

As staff from another forum, I will say the way the staff here are handling things have been real poor. You all have been fairly secretive, and in general feeling like you have some bad feelings about Minus World. As a moderator there let me make it clear that everyone involved legitimately just wanted to post on MFGG. On the topic of the LGBT stuff, it was just a thread made by someone who is part of that community to converse with other LGBT members, and the way you as the staff dealt with it is really concerning, as is the viewpoint of a good portion of this community. Concerning shitposts and if they should be allowed or not, thats a no brainer, you can't reasonably define a shitpost. It is also appalling that a member got banned not once but twice just for posting a lot, for posting things fully within the rules of the site. Go back a page and you can find similar style threads. Not being able to handle yourselves in a situation that is in all reality pretty light is a sad sight, for a lot of places all thats been going on has would have been considered not too bad. All in all I think you need to have a serious staff reform, and a major rules reform. A PPP-like forum would also be super benificial, if you really want to push your "GC is only for serious posts" deal(which it isn't if you go back a page and look anyways).

[quote="Magnemania"]Does anyone have an example of Minus World members not immediately jumping to each other's defense as soon as any controversy occurs? I would like to perceive this less as a war, as we do have Mit willing to listen to the MW perspective and I would hope that equivalents exist on the other side. Since this post sounds fairly anti-MW, allow me to link some posts created recently that do contribute to the site: [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18941&start=100]DreiDreiDesert posted positive feedback on Paper Mario Colors of Creation[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19846&start=20]BlasterMaster provided some positive reinforcement, DreiDreiDesert offered constructive feedback on Pocket Smasher Guys[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19527&start=60]DreiDreiDesert provided constructive criticism on Lovintendo's spritework[/url] If we expand the focus to discussion with the social boards that is neither political, involves discussion of modifying the forums, and is not intended primarily as a joke... [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20165]Blastermaster posted an inoffensive joke response to Parakarry's discussion of drinking water[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20133]An assortment of Minus World members provided relevant information/perspectives on the legality of fangames[/url] [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20098]Super Mario WTL contributes to the discussion on online threats.[/url] And while it was primarily a joke, I very much enjoyed the [url=https://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20101]petition to cease development of mario's sticker stage[/url] topic. The joke had a fair amount of effort put into it, was phrased in a way not to offend anyone, and directly correlated to the goings-on of the site.[/quote] i'm hosting kira game. you forgot that.