About streaming queue work: I don't have any problem with showing people how the approval process works - we've written a lot about the queue's system on mainsite updates. On the other hand, there's some stuff in the queue that certain users might prefer to remain private - in particular, reports and PMs to the staff.

I'd like to see some joke games around here as we don't always have to be serious on the topic of fangaming.(This is more of a suggestion for users in general)

Would you guys be able to add Tapatalk support on the forum? Tapatalk is a smartphone app that allows you to sign in and post to a number of forums using a universal log in. Eg: You're a member of three forums, you log in once and can post to all within the app. It would be really helpful for people like me who visit lots of forums and often need to post from a mobile. If you don't do that, could you at least get a mobile theme for the forum. It is a nightmare to try and read and navigate it on a phone. Cheers.

Sounds neat, plus I like how TSR's using a mobile forum skin.

Didn't we had a suggestions thread for any things MFGG should do or implement started: http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14157 Anyways, I honestly say that I can browse through MFGG on my android phone just fine. I wonder if its cell phones before it are the cause of your dilemma.

I'll be honest with you: Our current phpBB software is definitely showing its age, and I'm not sure how much we can expand on it. Guinea can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a universal log-in system will ever be feasible for MFGG. If we ever upgrade the mainsite, there's a high chance we'll integrate the mainsite and forums so only a single account will be required for each, and I doubt apps like Tapatalk would be compatible with such an arrangement. As for the mobile skin, one of the reasons traditional forums have lost popularity in recent years is they often aren't very mobile-friendly. Designing a good mobile skin remains high on my to-do list for the other forum I run, and I think a mobile-specific skin could be a useful addition to this forum as well. I'll discuss this with Guinea the next time he's on AIM.

Mainsite and message boards works perfectly on my Android phone.

I use MFGG on my phone on a regular basis, and I like it the way it is. I tend to turn off mobile sites; I find them irritating as they are hard to navigate, they often have less features than the full site, and you often can't zoom.

[quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375852#p375852]VinnyVideo[/url]"]I'll be honest with you: Our current phpBB software is definitely showing its age, and I'm not sure how much we can expand on it. Guinea can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a universal log-in system will ever be feasible for MFGG. If we ever upgrade the mainsite, there's a high chance we'll integrate the mainsite and forums so only a single account will be required for each, and I doubt apps like Tapatalk would be compatible with such an arrangement.[/quote] You wouldn't be using Tapatalk for the main site, it's specifically for forums. It's an app that allows you to browse and post on multiple forums at once from the one account. To view the main site you'd need to open up a browser. The app supports Phpbb just fine. You literally just need to install the plugin and then whoever wants to use it just links their forum account to their Tapatalk account. You don't need to worry about skins, the app has that covered for you. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375852#p375852]VinnyVideo[/url]"]As for the mobile skin, one of the reasons traditional forums have lost popularity in recent years is they often aren't very mobile-friendly. Designing a good mobile skin remains high on my to-do list for the other forum I run, and I think a mobile-specific skin could be a useful addition to this forum as well. I'll discuss this with Guinea the next time he's on AIM.[/quote] Having a skin alongside the app is good too in case somebody has an incompatible device or doesn't want to pay the $2 for it. Brief search and I found this which might suffice: http://startrekguide.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5386 [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375849#p375849]sspp03[/url]"]Didn't we had a suggestions thread for any things MFGG should do or implement started: http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14157 Anyways, I honestly say that I can browse through MFGG on my android phone just fine. I wonder if its cell phones before it are the cause of your dilemma.[/quote] It wasn't pinned so I presumed it didn't exist. What do you mean by 'fine?' My phone browser opens the pages as you would expect but for any ounce of usability I have to zoom in and constantly scroll horizontally. Also, the images and whatnot are a bit of an annoyance. I don't want to turn them off in my options because I like looking at them on my PC. Sure, it loads 'fine' and it can be used but the forum certainly isn't optimised for it.

[quote="fantanoice"][quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375852#p375852]VinnyVideo[/url]"]I'll be honest with you: Our current phpBB software is definitely showing its age, and I'm not sure how much we can expand on it. Guinea can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a universal log-in system will ever be feasible for MFGG. If we ever upgrade the mainsite, there's a high chance we'll integrate the mainsite and forums so only a single account will be required for each, and I doubt apps like Tapatalk would be compatible with such an arrangement.[/quote] You wouldn't be using Tapatalk for the main site, it's specifically for forums. It's an app that allows you to browse and post on multiple forums at once from the one account. To view the main site you'd need to open up a browser. The app supports Phpbb just fine. You literally just need to install the plugin and then whoever wants to use it just links their forum account to their Tapatalk account. You don't need to worry about skins, the app has that covered for you. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375852#p375852]VinnyVideo[/url]"]As for the mobile skin, one of the reasons traditional forums have lost popularity in recent years is they often aren't very mobile-friendly. Designing a good mobile skin remains high on my to-do list for the other forum I run, and I think a mobile-specific skin could be a useful addition to this forum as well. I'll discuss this with Guinea the next time he's on AIM.[/quote] Having a skin alongside the app is good too in case somebody has an incompatible device or doesn't want to pay the $2 for it. Brief search and I found this which might suffice: http://startrekguide.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5386 [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375849#p375849]sspp03[/url]"]Didn't we had a suggestions thread for any things MFGG should do or implement started: http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14157 Anyways, I honestly say that I can browse through MFGG on my android phone just fine. I wonder if its cell phones before it are the cause of your dilemma.[/quote] It wasn't pinned so I presumed it didn't exist. What do you mean by 'fine?' My phone browser opens the pages as you would expect but for any ounce of usability I have to zoom in and constantly scroll horizontally. Also, the images and whatnot are a bit of an annoyance. I don't want to turn them off in my options because I like looking at them on my PC. Sure, it loads 'fine' and it can be used but the forum certainly isn't optimised for it.[/quote] Should of looked through pages 1-3 of the General Chat to find it, and TBH, It really should of been pinned. Anyways, what I mean by fine, I have no complaints on how this forum, or any phpbb forum runs on android phones and tablets, and iOS systems such as the iPod Touch, iPad, and iPhone. Sure you have to zoom in a little and move the screen if your phone has that option, because hey, thats the way on how today's phones and other handheld devices work when it comes to browsing on the Internet. There really isn't much of a need for mobile versions, and most of them seen in forums cater to well, people who use earlier cell phones to navigate and is more cumbersome to phones that uses those GUI OS such as Android and iOS. Thats one reason why I feel to say that Tapatalk and mobile versions aren't really necessary.

[quote="Friendly Dictator"]I use MFGG on my phone on a regular basis, and I like it the way it is. I tend to turn off mobile sites; I find them irritating as they are hard to navigate, they often have less features than the full site, and you often can't zoom.[/quote] I'm not a fan of mobile sites either, and I often disable them too. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375842#p375842]fantanoice[/url]"] If you don't do that, could you at least get a mobile theme for the forum. It is a nightmare to try and read and navigate it on a phone. [/quote] I check MFGG on a phone from time to time, and I've never had any issue navigating the forums.

It's fair enough if [i]you[/i] guys have an easy time on your phones but what about people who have a device that doesn't render the site well? The whole point of the mobile-minimalism is so as many devices have an easy time browsing the site as possible. It's pretty unlikely that every mobile browser, screen size and other factors will render the page in a usable way (in fact, you [i]know[/i] it doesn't because it was raised as an issue), so this is the best approach to do it. It is also why many other sites do as well. Plus, this is a forum, what more are you going to do other than read/write words and occasionally put up pictures, links, etc? It's just a theme, a way of styling the site, so the majority - if not all - of your regular tasks can be accomplished on it. Heck, if you prefer the desktop site then switch back to that theme. Everybody is happy. There's literally no issue other than you needing to click one button if you want the desktop site. I even provided a link to a mobile theme that's free and available to install right now so you don't even have to waste time developing it. What's the problem? [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]Sure you have to zoom in a little and move the screen if your phone has that option, because hey, thats the way on [b]how today's phones and other handheld devices work when it comes to browsing on the Internet.[/b][/quote]That's actually the very thing I'm complaining about. That is cumbersome, unnecessary and goes against everything that mobile browsing is meant to actually accomplish. The point of browsing on a mobile is to view the website on the go: read the content, contribute, go back to what you're meant to be doing. It's not meant to be as detailed as a PC and the websites shouldn't be as such (but if you want them to do so, choose that option). Scrolling and zooming is a clumsy result of websites not being designed with them in mind and a mobile theme eradicates that completely. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]There really isn't much of a need for mobile versions[/quote]How do you know that? Have you researched it? Where's your proof? [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]and most of them seen in forums cater to well, people who use earlier cell phones to navigate and is more cumbersome to phones that uses those GUI OS such as Android and iOS. [/quote]I fail to see the problem because that sounds like a benefit to me. The idea is support more devices so more people have an easier time. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]Thats one reason why I feel to say that Tapatalk and mobile versions aren't really necessary.[/quote]Your entire argument was based on personal bias and not actually providing any drawbacks with the proposition. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375849#p375849]sspp03[/url]"]Should of looked through pages 1-3 of the General Chat to find it, and TBH, It really should of been pinned.[/quote] Well, I didn't just post without looking. I checked the index of a few boards (even looked for a 'suggestions/feedback' forum) before giving up. There's actually are problems to looking further than that: a) There's no obvious section for it. It may have been just as appropriate to put it in the news section, for instance. b) I wouldn't know how recently it would have been updated, so I wouldn't know how far back I would need to look (and in multiple forums because there's no obvious section to put it in). c) I didn't know that one even existed so I wouldn't know if searching would actually come up with a result. d) Not mentioned but relevant, the 'Search' feature complains about the word 'suggestions' being too common when you try to search for it so that doesn't help either. If it's that much of a concern, they can merge these threads. Even so, like you said, it really should have been pinned because nobody in their right mind would or should go on a wild goose chase for a suggestions thread.

I'm perfectly fine with having a mobile theme, as long as I'm able to turn it off.

[quote="Friendly Dictator"]I'm perfectly fine with having a mobile theme, as long as I'm able to turn it off.[/quote] ^This

[spoiler][quote="fantanoice"]It's fair enough if [i]you[/i] guys have an easy time on your phones but what about people who have a device that doesn't render the site well? The whole point of the mobile-minimalism is so as many devices have an easy time browsing the site as possible. It's pretty unlikely that every mobile browser, screen size and other factors will render the page in a usable way (in fact, you [i]know[/i] it doesn't because it was raised as an issue), so this is the best approach to do it. It is also why many other sites do as well. Plus, this is a forum, what more are you going to do other than read/write words and occasionally put up pictures, links, etc? It's just a theme, a way of styling the site, so the majority - if not all - of your regular tasks can be accomplished on it. Heck, if you prefer the desktop site then switch back to that theme. Everybody is happy. There's literally no issue other than you needing to click one button if you want the desktop site. I even provided a link to a mobile theme that's free and available to install right now so you don't even have to waste time developing it. What's the problem? [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]Sure you have to zoom in a little and move the screen if your phone has that option, because hey, thats the way on [b]how today's phones and other handheld devices work when it comes to browsing on the Internet.[/b][/quote]That's actually the very thing I'm complaining about. That is cumbersome, unnecessary and goes against everything that mobile browsing is meant to actually accomplish. The point of browsing on a mobile is to view the website on the go: read the content, contribute, go back to what you're meant to be doing. It's not meant to be as detailed as a PC and the websites shouldn't be as such (but if you want them to do so, choose that option). Scrolling and zooming is a clumsy result of websites not being designed with them in mind and a mobile theme eradicates that completely. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]There really isn't much of a need for mobile versions[/quote]How do you know that? Have you researched it? Where's your proof? [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]and most of them seen in forums cater to well, people who use earlier cell phones to navigate and is more cumbersome to phones that uses those GUI OS such as Android and iOS. [/quote]I fail to see the problem because that sounds like a benefit to me. The idea is support more devices so more people have an easier time. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375857#p375857]sspp03[/url]"]Thats one reason why I feel to say that Tapatalk and mobile versions aren't really necessary.[/quote]Your entire argument was based on personal bias and not actually providing any drawbacks with the proposition. [quote="[url=http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=375849#p375849]sspp03[/url]"]Should of looked through pages 1-3 of the General Chat to find it, and TBH, It really should of been pinned.[/quote] Well, I didn't just post without looking. I checked the index of a few boards (even looked for a 'suggestions/feedback' forum) before giving up. There's actually are problems to looking further than that: a) There's no obvious section for it. It may have been just as appropriate to put it in the news section, for instance. b) I wouldn't know how recently it would have been updated, so I wouldn't know how far back I would need to look (and in multiple forums because there's no obvious section to put it in). c) I didn't know that one even existed so I wouldn't know if searching would actually come up with a result. d) Not mentioned but relevant, the 'Search' feature complains about the word 'suggestions' being too common when you try to search for it so that doesn't help either. If it's that much of a concern, they can merge these threads. Even so, like you said, it really should have been pinned because nobody in their right mind would or should go on a wild goose chase for a suggestions thread.[/quote][/spoiler] To respond back: You know, this forum has also a mainsite that is linked with the accounts each user makes by registerring on both the forum and the mainsite. Will a mobile web version work with both the forum and the mainsite? It can, but at the same time, how will it be done? Thats what I want to know, since for the mainsite, Retriever II made the Taloncrossing Site Management System and currently, only he and Char could possibly make a mobile version of the mainsite, and both, are inactive. Source: http://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Mario_Fan_Games_Galaxy , http://wiki.mfgg.net/index.php?title=Taloncrossing_SMS There are drawbacks to a mobile web versions. I said that the mobile web versions were cumbersome to me based on my experience with websites who integrated them. Limitations of mobile web versions are: bandwidth capacity (MFGG has this problem when the server is down due to traffic, it can only hold so much), lack of cookies and JavaScript support and the absence and/or unsupportability of other scripts, small screensize, situations in which ad reachers user, slower connectivity and hardware, and more. Some smartphones and android phones overcame those limitations as you well may know. Sources (I know some of the information of the sources that Ive used for my reseach acknowledges the importance of a mobile version, but there are also info that help my case in this discussion as well): http://www.ehow.com/info_8167624_disadvantages-mobile-internet.html , http://xatech.net/disadvantages-of-mobile-web/ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Web , http://baymard.com/blog/mobile-design-limitations , http://computer.howstuffworks.com/mobile-web-page3.htm , http://blog.eukhost.com/webhosting/making-your-websites-mobile-friendly-is-becoming-increasingly-more-important/ I find mobile versions of websites and forums better suited for companies whose purpose is to make money and social media outlets rather than a non-for-profit community of Mario fangamers. I understand that you wanted MFGG to attract a wider audience though. If the opinions of the community wanted a moblie version, then let them have it. My arguement was reflectant of my own views on the subject.

A mobile skin is a good suggestion. Someone just needs to have the time to come up with one and make it work with our forum software. Our forum has some custom modifications, so I'm not sure if a default skin will just work. EDIT: I also merged the two topics, as suggested.

As for me, I would gladly help y'all helping working on the mobile skin. But yeah, I'm gonna make a test phbb first.

[simg w=320 h=240]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106539740/Quick%20Photo/mobilethemeprototype.png[/simg] Early prototype of the Mobile Skin.

You really must stop waiting for the second coming of Char (and I really must stop dishing out advice - I'm not supposed to care anymore) - clearly the man has moved on in life. Normal people do that. At its core, this website is founded on two or three databases - one which deals with main site content, another which handles these forums, and a third which does the wiki, should you feel the need to acknowledge its existence and not stay well away from its inherent awkwardness. If you were to update this place to meet modern standards, you wouldn't need to touch the existing databases - it might be beneficial to add fields and gut out the way in which users are handled, but it's not a necessity, and likely isn't something you can feasibly accomplish without equipping yourself with leet web programming skillz. My guess is that since nobody has taken the inititive in three? four? years, that's not going to happen any time soon What you would be changing (or rather, completely re-writing), is the code which reads what the database has to say and generates HTML. This should not be exceedingly difficult if you've got access to the current source, and much of it (e.g. the stuff which says "read this, print that") probably doesn't even need to be changed. Effectively all you're doing is sorting out layouts, which yes, could include the detection and subsequent rendering of a mobile skin should you require it. But that's just CSS and a few images - there's no real monsters there. It wouldn't address all the big underlying concerns (such as, "is there a market for Mario fangames in the low cost development world of 2013"), but at the very least you wouldn't be locked into design ideas from 2005/2006. I mean you can reskin this forum and add mobile support right now if you desperately wanted to. Ultimately you'll either have to teach yourself web design, get someone in to do the handywork for you, or keep the status quo. My theory x years ago was that if MFGG started taking software development more seriously you'd attract a few web professionals along the way - the delay in adapting to changing tides (plus the reluctance for this board to distance itself from its past) means that hasn't happened. The facts have changed, and so the strategy must change too. Although I should probably reiterate something I've mentioned before - the entire direction of this place probably needs to be re-assessed if you're to survive (and succeed) in the long term.

^It's easy to talk about modernizing all of this, but it's not as easy to do it as you claim it to be. Time is also a factor, and Char, with all his skill that he has, didn't have the time, which is the reason why he sneaked away in the dark with no one noticing. He never officially left, which is why most of us were under the impression that he'd come back. All he said was that he needs more time to finish his studies and get his life in order, and it implied he'd be away for a year and then come back. He didn't come back. Also for still sticking around here and doing the best we can to keep the place as alive as it can be even with the limited time we have on our hands, you have nothing better to do than to call us "not normal"? With that thinking I have to wonder how you expect your vision of a modern MFGG to ever happen, if everyone is just supposed to "move on" and leave everything behind. As you have said, times have changed. As fangames get more and more too complex to keep being made by one person to keep up the interest of players, likewise a website that has to keep up with those modern standards is not as easy to write with the same manpower anymore either. Especially so, if an already existing code base, that was never designed for current times, is supposed to be modified. It makes me wonder how much experience you yourself have with the things you claim to be so simple. The database system of a phpBB board is very complex, and the original software is developed by quite a number of people, all with professional skills, working on this thing for years. If you think any one of us people here on MFGG can just casually hack their completely own code to support a phpBB database over night, and while we're at it unify its user database with the mainsite and the wiki, you greatly underestimate this complexity. RII back then took 1 year to write the current main site. A new version of a mainsite would require the same features and more, would have to keep up to a lot higher security standards as well as design standards and on top of all that has to be backward compatible with our old and outdated software. Modern tools have allowed us to create web systems in less time, but complexity and quality standards grow faster than the tools. Fangaming in itself is a shrinking hobby. We're not getting less members because we're not good or modern enough, it's because there's no point in picking this up for the average person, when the alternative of going indie exists, that didn't exist when MFGG was founded. With the same effort that goes into making a fangame, you can also create an iOS or Android game and profit from it. So naturally, new people who are into programming, will go with that, and even if they make fangames they can still upload them for example at YoYo Games or other sites with far more professional websites than we can ever dream of. Fangaming is if anything a spring board into getting into programming without worrying about resources and a medium to express your fandom for a franchise, but it isn't what it once was. The price of entry is also increasing. Both Game Maker and MMF/TGF, the tools that have made MFGG as big as it is, are now way out of reach for the average 13 year old kid to just mess around and start making fangames. And there are no tools that are as accessible to replace them. If someone wanted to get into fangaming these days I wouldn't even know what to recommend to them on how to get started. The people who have been around since the beginning are by now so great at doing what they do that newcomers have absolutely no chance to ever compete with them. Back when I joined, I could write an engine better than most seen on MFGG within barely a year of using GM and get praised for it. Nowadays, a newcomer needs be on par with Psycho Waluigi or Midas Machine to even get a "Looks good" from our community that's used to everything. Meanwhile, the most simplistic experiences are praised to the heavens on casual mobile devices. MFGG is, and hopefully will remain for a long time, that place where Mario fans and Mario fangamers can go to to work on and play Mario fangames. But it's an illusion to think we can keep up with the big players when absolutely no profit is possible to come out of what we do by definition and the competition within the field is so far ahead that newcomers are scared away. So yeah, what will probably happen is that we keep trying to do our best, and add small things here and there where we can, and maybe get this MFGG3.0 finished sometime (I picked it up myself by now, and Kritter offered help too). But I wouldn't expect MFGG to be a pioneer in software development or web design anymore.