[quote="Mit"]i'm worried because every mario and luigi game in the past 3 years has been made on a 1-year deadline. this is a bad thing because it's very clear that the quality is dropping because of it.[/quote] That, too-wait, Dream Team wasn't made on that short a deadline, was it?

[quote="Mit"]i'm worried because every mario and luigi game in the past 3 years has been made on a 1-year deadline. this is a bad thing because it's very clear that the quality is dropping because of it.[/quote] The difference here I suppose is they already have the game done when it comes to story and levels etc. It's literally just a coat of paint. Admittedly it's less justifiable to buy if you've already played it through a bunch but then I guess that means this game isn't really meant for us but rather for a newer generation who never played the original given that it's almost 14 years old by this point.

[quote="Magnemania"][quote="Mit"]i'm worried because every mario and luigi game in the past 3 years has been made on a 1-year deadline. this is a bad thing because it's very clear that the quality is dropping because of it.[/quote] That, too-wait, Dream Team wasn't made on that short a deadline, was it?[/quote] Dream Team was released 4 years after Bowser's Inside Story, released a few months after its reveal which looked mostly complete, so it may have been in development for 2+ years. In short, I don't think so.

https://www.polygon.com/2013/7/3/4489762/mario-and-luigi-dream-team-three-year-development-due-to-2d-pixel-art Three years for Dream Team, one year to reuse the Dream Team/Sticker Star assets for Paper Jam. Hrm.

dream team was the last game to be given the full 3-5 year deadline that previous games got. paper jam and now this were both made in roughly a year's time and it definitely shows. the remake is only getting a pass because they're saving time on a script and story to just remake a game that's already good. obviously superstar saga is a good game, and it still will be. but there's a noticeable decrease in personality in flair that's now lost because of the reused art style (which is another result of the shorter deadlines- paper jam's overworld sprites are reused from some battle + dream overworld sprites in dream team) and, potentially, watered down gameplay. i wasn't the one who brought up that battles look noticeably slower compared to the original, which is also part of why superstar saga is heralded as one of if not the best mario and luigi title. if they're gonna make a remake, don't do it because it's easy and won't take a lot of time. also i forsee them cutting the geno cameo and people getting absolutely livid about it. even though that of all things really doesn't make a difference.

I have decided not to buy the game, after all. I was split 50-50 but the more I look at it the more I hate it.

i'm still gonna get it because i just like superstar saga, and i want to see the series go with this formula rather than what they've been using in the later entries. but i'm still disappointed in the changes, especially ones that make as little sense as this.

The graphics are a secondary concern for me. What I saw in the Treehouse only seems to have confirmed my worries that the gameplay is noticeably slower. I'm disappointed, especially when Nintendo's proven that they CAN do great remakes that are faithful to their original material but improve on them in all the right ways (Ocarina/Majora 3D, Star Fox 64 3D, seemingly Return of Samus, etc). They just halfway phoned this in.

[youtube]HIKsKFaAvMg[/youtube] It really doesn't look music slower to me? Unless I'm missing something. There's a little bit of extra padding when destroying the pillars but that's hardly a deal breaker.

Is it just me, or is Nintendo treating the Mario RPGs like a total joke? The only one they seem to take somewhat seriously anymore is that Rabbids crossover and even that's not perfect. When Paper Mario gets remastered, I'll be livid if I see those NSMBWii hills in the background. [quote="Magnemania"]I'm quite happy that M&L is getting more exposure (CUT) But Superstar Saga is an excellent game, so a remake of it might draw more fans, which might mean more Bowser's Inside Stories and fewer Paper Jams. [/quote] So, what would this mean for the spriting community then? Back when the first game was new, every kid and their mother wanted to emulate that sprite style. Some of those spriters from that era developed into some really talented ones that are still praised to this day. With the release of this game, it's not an unreasonable assumption that we'll get an M&L spriting renaissance. Not only would the fans try to replicate the style that was used since Dream Team, but they'll also investigate the older entries and try their hand emulating those styles. On top of that, it might even draw back the already established spriters to communities like this one. While this all sounds good on paper (especially since it'll draw more traffic here), I'm overall mixed about this proposition.

[quote="Kritter"]...I guess that means this game isn't really meant for us but rather for a newer generation who never played the original given that it's almost 14 years old by this point.[/quote] We're so old. :huh:

does age really have anything to do with having standards?

[quote="Mit"]with stuff like troopeas, though, there were still koopa troopas that stood upright. it was a deliberate design choice, troopeas are basically wild koopas. plus, what's the point of staying on-model when the mario and luigi series previously wasn't on-model until recently? it doesn't make a lot of sense.[/quote] Oh, good point. Never thought of it that way. [quote="E-Man"]Is it just me, or is Nintendo treating the Mario RPGs like a total joke? The only one they seem to take somewhat seriously anymore is that Rabbids crossover and even that's not perfect. When Paper Mario gets remastered, I'll be livid if I see those NSMBWii hills in the background.[/quote] The recent Mario RPGs had problems, yes, but claiming this remaster to be a dud just because of some recurring spotty hills seems to be laying it on thick. Not to mention that while Nintendo (Miyamoto specifically) did indeed go overboard in forcing certain restrictions on the Mario RPGs as of late such as cutting down on plot and enforcing the "only use characters from Mario's world" rule, a bulk of the more controversial decisions such as using generic Toads as the only NPCs and nixing the RPG elements in Sticker Star/Color Splash and the lack of original characters and settings in Paper Jam were made on the part of Intelligent Systems and AlphaDream themselves. But I digress.

[quote="BullockDS"]does age really have anything to do with having standards?[/quote] I don't really understand what you're asking. Yeah the graphics are different, and worse to some people, but I think they've done a really good job with it personally. It's not like they slapped a filter on it and called it a "HD remake", it's been completely remade with graphics that I personally think look quite lovely. I'm not about to start complaining that hills and trees aren't to my personal specifications. I also don't see any examples of it being slower. Even if it is, is that a huge deal? I feel like people are getting up in arms about nothing when it comes to this game. Me, I'm just excited to see the world with fresh eyes even if it's not the way some people would prefer it.

I think that, while the Mushroom Kingdom is a bit bland and lifeless, Beanbean is looking pretty good. Shame some of the enemies lost a bit of flair, though.

Honestly, I'm still interested in this. Yeah not every graphics change is great, but I do really like the look of the Beanbean Kingdom areas, and feel the updated designs for the main characters look fantastic. Who really cares what a few intro backgrounds look like when you're there for about ten minutes at most? And hey, let's not forget they'll be redoing the music too. The old game was horribly limited by the weak GBA soundchip, with otherwise catchy songs like Popple's theme and Cackletta's theme seeming kind of bland with the instruments provided: [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KWrUpGe_4[/ayoutube] [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwp7zDeLlc[/ayoutube] You've got nice songs there kind of hurt by weak instruments. Let's not forget Teehee Valley either. Great song, but... yeah, it certainly sounds a bit basic now: [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szHYmae1rMI[/ayoutube] Having the soundtrack redone in Dream Team and Paper Jam's style will be worth the price of admission alone. Might also make Joke's End less suicide inducing. As for the battles, I never thought they were too slow in either Dream Team or Paper Jam to be honest. The tutorials and mini games got annoying certainly. But the battle system? Thought it worked fine all things considered. This remake bringing back the simpler, classic style Bros Attacks already means it'll be even better than that as far as speed is concerned. Really, so long as the game doesn't kill every original concept the game had (which it won't, all the original characters I've seen in the trailers have returned intact) and it's less glitchy than Paper Jam (that's basically a given at this point), it'll be fine.

[quote="CM30"]Honestly, I'm still interested in this. Yeah not every graphics change is great, but I do really like the look of the Beanbean Kingdom areas, and feel the updated designs for the main characters look fantastic. Who really cares what a few intro backgrounds look like when you're there for about ten minutes at most? And hey, let's not forget they'll be redoing the music too. The old game was horribly limited by the weak GBA soundchip, with otherwise catchy songs like Popple's theme and Cackletta's theme seeming kind of bland with the instruments provided: [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KWrUpGe_4[/ayoutube] [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwp7zDeLlc[/ayoutube] You've got nice songs there kind of hurt by weak instruments. Let's not forget Teehee Valley either. Great song, but... yeah, it certainly sounds a bit basic now: [ayoutube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szHYmae1rMI[/ayoutube] Having the soundtrack redone in Dream Team and Paper Jam's style will be worth the price of admission alone. Might also make Joke's End less suicide inducing. As for the battles, I never thought they were too slow in either Dream Team or Paper Jam to be honest. The tutorials and mini games got annoying certainly. But the battle system? Thought it worked fine all things considered. This remake bringing back the simpler, classic style Bros Attacks already means it'll be even better than that as far as speed is concerned. Really, so long as the game doesn't kill every original concept the game had (which it won't, all the original characters I've seen in the trailers have returned intact) and it's less glitchy than Paper Jam (that's basically a given at this point), it'll be fine.[/quote] Then , the game's musician does a google search : "Mario & Luigi SUPERSTAR SAGA [Name of the music] Redux" and downloads it , later on Nintendo's HQ -Musician : Hey guys , i've got the OST for Mario & Luigi RPG 3DS!! -Nintendo : Excellent , you are fired -Musician : Why?!! -Nintendo : Because that Redux Youtube music was made by a Nintendo employee -Musician : Who , me? -Nintendo : Yep

[font=Comic Sans MS]Just played the original not too long ago. This doesn't look too good to me but it if helps people experience the game in some form I think that's good[/font]

I'll never understand people's hate towards the NSMB hills of all things. I get that the NSMB series got stale pretty quick, but the hills are just... well, they're hills, they don't cause any issues. The only reason they keep showing up is for consistency. Personally, I love them as they make it clear when you are in the Mushroom Kingdom versus another kingdom.

[quote="Mr. Yoshbert"] [quote="E-Man"]Is it just me, or is Nintendo treating the Mario RPGs like a total joke? The only one they seem to take somewhat seriously anymore is that Rabbids crossover and even that's not perfect. When Paper Mario gets remastered, I'll be livid if I see those NSMBWii hills in the background.[/quote] The recent Mario RPGs had problems, yes, but claiming this remaster to be a dud just because of some recurring spotty hills seems to be laying it on thick. Not to mention that while Nintendo (Miyamoto specifically) did indeed go overboard in forcing certain restrictions on the Mario RPGs as of late such as cutting down on plot and enforcing the "only use characters from Mario's world" rule, a bulk of the more controversial decisions such as using generic Toads as the only NPCs and nixing the RPG elements in Sticker Star/Color Splash and the lack of original characters and settings in Paper Jam were made on the part of Intelligent Systems and AlphaDream themselves. But I digress.[/quote] Did I actually say that this game or the possible Paper Mario remaster is a dud? Sure, I would be angry if I see those NSMBWii hills in another RPG and I feel like Nintendo is not taking the RPGs seriously, but the hills are more of a symptom than a real deal breaker. As long as the Paper Mario remaster has good features and is otherwise faithful to the original, the style of the hills won't affect me snagging a copy. Not sure why you would jump to the conclusion that I see these new remasters as duds. Also, when I said that Nintendo treat the Mario RPGs as a total joke, I was also including Intelligent Systems and AlphaDream. If I recall correctly, AlphaDream had to struggle in order to get [i]Dream Team[/i] the way it was before it fell into the same trap as [i]Sticker Star[/i]. [i]Paper Jam[/i] would end up as that crossover between the two franchises we dreamed about, but AlphaDream had way too much trouble working it out and overall gave up on an ambitious story. For this [i]Superstar Saga[/i] remaster, they seem to be deliberately ignoring their own take on the Mushroom Kingdom and the BeanBean variation of the enemies for a more standardized look (although the BeanBean Kingdom and its exclusive residents seems fine). The worst that these design decisions will do is knock off a couple of points from a review score, but it does make me worry if AlphaDream will dive deeper into standardized Mario elements in future games. By the way, Chaoxys, while the hills aren't particularly bad in and of themselves, they've become a bit of a symbol of the standardization of the Mario series. Personally, I prefer the original hills that have eyes. They convey a similar message that you're in the Mushroom Kingdom (and the Mario series in general) and are a lot more subtle in their design.