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Drawing Competition 2017 #4, Mario Characters as JRPG Characters
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:33 pm 
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They definitely put more effort into their entry than you make it sound at the very least, imo. Copy/pasting a mustache on a picture of Cloud from Google search isn't exactly comparable.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:43 pm 
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It's an example. Quite obviously.

I could put all the effort in the world into a proper picture but if it doesn't represent Mario then it doesn't fit within the competition guidelines as they're written here.

Let me break it down for you like this then, if the other example whizzed over your head so easily:

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Kritter, I'm gonna break it down for you. I now have the time to explain why I'm allowing Black Boo's entry despite your protest.

1.) The Mario character does not need to be strictly dressed as the JRPG character in question, it just needs to be mashed-up with it. (Rosalina+Sheena from Tales of Symphonia)

2.) You can take whatever creative liberties you want. The design of the character does not need to be 1:1 (Rosalina is dressed up as Sheena, but her hairstyle is a mash-up of both)

3.) The character should still be recognizable. (Despite being dressed up as Sheena, Rosalina still has some identifying features. Ergo: her bangs, facial features, crown, the cards have stars on them)

4.) You need to learn to visualize. (Despite not being colored, I was still able to tell where he wanted to go with it.)

5.) You can use any art style you wish. (It's pretty obvious that he was going with something more Symphonia-inspired. Which unfortunately makes it look a bit more like Sheena than Black Boo probably hoped)

6.) The only REAL restriction is: You can't mash-up your Mario character with a non-JRPG character or a Mario RPG character. (Again, it's Sheena from Tales of Symphonia, a JRPG.)

7.) I carefully take the time to see if there are any glaring problems or details that I may have missed. If I don't feel that the entry doesn't convey their subject enough

8.) I didn't reject Black Boo's entry, because it DIDN'T break any rules as far as I'm concerned.

This means if you just drew Cloud (like Nomura would) but you gave him a few of Mario's physical features (like his facial features, his mustache, hairstyle and/or his body type), it would count, even if it wasn't colored. If you colored it, you would have to be sure to use colors that would appear on his physical features.

If you just drew Cloud with a mustache: I would disqualify you on the spot, not questions asked.

Bottom Line: You're thinking that the rules are much stricter than they are.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:08 pm 
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It's only recognizable because he told you who it was. As I say if you had no idea it was Rosalina, it'd be almost impossible to guess. I asked my wife who it was meant to be and she had absolutely no idea despite knowing who Rosalina is. It's not a mash-up, it's Sheena with a really hidden crown and some star cards. The facial features don't even adhere to the one thing that makes Rosalina recognisable in that you pretty much NEVER see both of Rosalina's eyes. It's recognisable as Sheena, not as Rosalina. It fails both these guidelines:

- The premise is simple: Mash up a Mario character/enemy with a character/monster from a JRPG.
- Feel free to take some creative liberties with your design as long as the subject is recognizable.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:22 pm 
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I'm done arguing. I tried to at least get you see things from my angle so we can agree to disagree, but I can see that there's no point in even trying anymore. I make the rules and judge things on a case-by-case basis. I don't have time to stress over the one person who aggressively disagrees because he doesn't like my ruling.

Also, there's one entry on my hit list: I don't know what Technoflop's entry is supposed to be. I can't verify the character that Waluigi is dressed up as, because I don't know which game the JRPG subject is from. Can someone let me know?

 
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Red Tsumani and Technoflops both seem to share the same view, so it's not just me.

Still, if you wanna be all "my way or the highway" and ignore the rules YOU SET and allow people to draw anything they like then don't make rules at all! You might as well say "you can draw whatever you like as long as it has a very very very very slight nod to something Mario related".

While we're at it, you might as well change the competition name from "Mario Characters as JRPG Characters" to "JRPG Characters with some Mario Related Bits stuck on", because it's deceptive. It almost seems like a rule, a name like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Am I mistaken that competitions are supposed to be for fun? Sure, you gotta have some rules, but I honestly feel like you guys are nitpicking for argument's sake and not for the competition's benefit.

If you don't agree with Supah-Luigi's ruling, perhaps you should write a suggestion thread to discuss forum staff setting the rules for competitions instead.

As another option, perhaps we should ask moderators to state their stance on this issue so that we can put the debate to rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Well you can't just ignore rules because "hey we're all just having a bit of fun here", otherwise what's the point in making it a competition at all? Might as well just let people freely draw whatever they like with no restrictions at all and pick the most competent art regardless of the competition rules, which is what's happening here.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:26 pm 
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I was going to remain quiet over the whole thing to remain the bigger man and not get into trouble, but I guess I can't avoid it. For me, I'm siding with Kritter and the others. They're not the only ones who think that Rosalina barely looks like Rosalina, and I also think that Supah-Luigi holds a positive bias towards Black Boo. Whether it was his intention or not, I feel like he's bending the rules for him just because he's a highly praised artist. While that normally isn't a bad thing, I'm more inclined to bend any rule if the person in question has good moral character over just talent alone. It seems like people on Supah-Luigi's side is trying desperately to cover up their mistake over owning up to it.

Now, with that all said, here is my entry for the contest. It's not finished yet because it's 2:24 AM where I live and I need my sleep. As such, I'll handle the rest in the morning.

Spoiler:

 
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:38 pm 
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If Black Boo changed the face to be more Rosalina in style, then it absolutely would fall within the rules. To me, the face is the only problem here and I can see other elements of Rosalina in the submission. However, I feel like there are better ways to present these criticisms than to try and get the submission outright disqualified in a heated argument on whether or not it follows the rules.

E-Man, making accusations of bias/favoritism does not belong here and serves only to derail the thread further. Please keep those to yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:53 pm 
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My entry is supposed to be Waluigi with Joker's (main protagonist) costume (Persona 5)

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:13 pm 
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For the love of...

I'll go color it if it will shut you up.

Give me twenty minutes or so.

P.S. Kritter: Your train of logic is dismissing a key factor of Drawing Competitions: Art Styles. But seeing as you seem so hell bent on denying my entry, I doubt me putting myself further behind schedule and ruining this piece will satisfy you either.

Spoiler:


Last edited by Black Boo on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Colour won't change my opinion much, it'll just look like a palette swapped Sheena then.

Are you not used to critique?

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Just for the record: I don't have a positive bias for Black Boo. Heck, I don't have any personal investment with ANYONE from MFGG. I'm just trying to be fair to him, and I'd go the distance for any of you if I felt you were being unfairly judged in a competition. I'm especially invested, because I'm running it and I don't want anyone to get bitter over it. What's truly unfair is the assumption of bias due to him being a "highly-praised artist." The devil's advocate in me could argue that you're only siding with them to eliminate the competition. Y'know, because he's a good artist. It probably isn't true, but you never know, right?

 
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
Colour won't change my opinion much, it'll just look like a palette swapped Sheena then.

Are you not used to critique?

"Critique."

This is not critique, this is nitpicking and dismissing a very important factor of the image, Style. I've been through five years of art school. I know the difference between critique and being a pain in the patuckus, and you're doing the latter, not the former. Critique offers a neutral-toned, non-biased perspective on the work in an objective manner, and provides suggestions or ways to change it, not just "oh, it doesn't look right," or things of the sort. Critique is deliberate, thorough, and meticulous, considering the artist's intention, though politiely bringing it into question if it is unclear. And given I have made myself very clear in my deliberate decision making whilst designing this piece, I can hardly call what you're offering as "critique."

Congratulations, by the way, you've turned what was meant to be a quick, fun, distraction from my current project into something more stressful than defending a blasted dissertation.

And just to prove a point, I did a quick bust sketch of the same design, but in more Mario proportions.

Spoiler:

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:58 pm 
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"Exceuuuuuse me but I am an arteest!"

If you want me to critique your work like one might critique art in an exhibition then you've come to the wrong place because I'm more in the business of saying things plain and simple. It's not nitpicking when it's the truth. You admitted yourself you foresaw that this might happen which means you already had doubts that your picture would be seen as anything but Sheena by at least someone, and if you didn't think this way then you'd have had no need to design the piece you just posted either.

Fact is I saw a piece of art that looked like Sheena from head to toe and had none of the hallmarks of Rosalina.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
"Exceuuuuuse me but I am an arteest!"

If you want me to critique your work like one might critique art in an exhibition then you've come to the wrong place because I'm more in the business of saying things plain and simple. It's not nitpicking when it's the truth. You admitted yourself you foresaw that this might happen which means you already had doubts that your picture would be seen as anything but Sheena by at least someone, and if you didn't think this way then you'd have had no need to design the piece you just posted either.

Fact is I saw a piece of art that looked like Sheena from head to toe and had none of the hallmarks of Rosalina.

Then that's not critique, that's stating your opinion. And your opinion is not truth when I clearly proved you wrong five minutes ago with that sketch. Fact of the matter is, if you don't like my entry being accepted, just don't vote for it. I learned this lesson six months ago.

I was more hopeful that people could put two and two together, and less doubting my skill.

Clearly, I was wrong. And you went and got bent out of shape over your opinion, not the truth, even after Supah-Luigi clarified and said the image was okay.

Supah, you can pick whichever sketch you want as my final entry, or use both if that's allowed to keep this argument from resurfacing when voting comes around, I don't care at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:11 pm 
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I'll just use the new one. Don't want any more rustled jimmies, so it'll be the safer choice. At least this headache can finally end.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Black Boo wrote:
Then that's not critique, that's stating your opinion. And your opinion is not truth when I clearly proved you wrong five minutes ago with that sketch. Fact of the matter is, if you don't like my entry being accepted, just don't vote for it. I learned this lesson six months ago.

I was more hopeful that people could put two and two together, and less doubting my skill.

Clearly, I was wrong. And you went and got bent out of shape over your opinion, not the truth, even after Supah-Luigi clarified and said the image was okay.

Supah, you can pick whichever sketch you want as my final entry, or use both if that's allowed to keep this argument from resurfacing when voting comes around, I don't care at this point.


It's not opinion at all. You can't tell me with a straight face that you think it looked LESS like Sheena and MORE like Rosalina and honestly believe it. I'd question your integrity as a qualified arteest if that were the case. I don't think anyone here could honestly argue that. Style plays no part when the sheer facts are right there, dunno what you think you proved but you can't just say "it's my art style" and expect that to make it all okay.

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 Post subject: Re: Drawing Competition 2017 #4 (LAST DAY)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Spoiler:

misc. last minute improvements

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