Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next  [ 59 posts ]  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.Forum locked 
Author Message
 [us]
 Post subject: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:21 pm 
User avatar
Always have a Shy-Guy in your avatar
Administrator
[A]
[S]
[W]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

Hi everyone. MFGG is a great place full of creative, friendly people. Over the past few weeks, however, I've been noticing some attitudes on the MFGG forums that could use improving. I'm not referring to any specific member or topic, because I'm noticing this pattern from quite a few different members in topics on every forum on MFGG. In particular, I've seen some members who aren't very good at taking criticism, but I've also seen some members who are too quick to jump on members they view as immature or annoying.

As for those whose work is being criticized, it's not fun to be the center of criticism. If you've spent dozens of hours trying to turn your dream into a reality, you probably want everyone to tell you just how awesome it is! You may well be bummed when someone comes along and tells you that your idea needs a lot more fine-tuning, or that they found a game-breaking bug that you have no idea how to fix. But just remember that constructive critique is not a personal assault upon you. In fact, constructive feedback is one of the most valuable things you can get as a creator. People dispensing advice may have more experience and a different skillset from you. Plus, it's far easier to be objective when you're testing someone else's game than it is when you're playing your own game.

I have a few words for those dispensing the criticism, too. This is a difficult pill for some of you to swallow, but how you say something can matter just as much as what you say. Dealing with stubborn people can be frustrating indeed, but getting angry is not going to help anything. In fact, a rude or condescending attitude is likely to do nothing but make the other person even more stubborn and defensive. MFGG is a community that focuses on two things: programming and art. These are two of the most difficult subjects under the sun. Programming is hard because it involves speaking a language with a syntax that is totally unlike that of what humans are accustomed to speaking, and art is hard because it's inherently subjective. If you're experienced in these topics, it's important to remember that you started in the same place they did: at the bottom. It wasn't easy getting started, and you probably had patient people to help guide you along the way, so be patient with those who are in the same position you once were.

Regardless of whether you're receiving or giving the feedback, MFGG is like every place where humans congregate, whether physically or digital. It's a place full of imperfect people with problems in their lives. Many members are dealing with things that we don't know about. It might be a disability, a family problem, or other real-life issues that affect their interpersonal relations. These things don't justify being rude or immature, but it's still important to consider that other people may be experiencing difficulties that you're not fully aware of.

Once again, MFGG is an awesome place full of awesome people who make awesome things. I just think we could do a better job of being patient and understanding towards one another. Making games is about having fun and expressing yourself - it's not a life-and-death struggle. You don't have to get the "last word" in every argument.

Lastly, have a random photo of Yoshi. It is impossible to be unhappy while you're looking at a cute Yoshi picture.

Image

_________________
Course clear! You got a card.

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [tr]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:46 pm 
User avatar
Thanks DonnieTheGuy!
Administrator
[A]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
Thanks for writing this thing Vinny, but I don't think people who ignores criticism would bother to read this. This doesn't mean you're not right though.
Well, I actually disagree at something. I don't think patience will work while dealing with people who just ignore criticism. But ignoring them will. They post their work because they want attention, not feedback. And they will keep posting if we keep feeding them with attention, and by attention I mean stupid arguments.
And I think it's really hard to give feedback politely when the person whose work is being criticized says "IDGAF what you say.".

_________________
Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:44 pm 
Always have Jason Voorhees in your sig
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

Mors raises a good point. But I think that the high road is definitely to keep calm even when the other person isn't. Or, like you said, just to ignore them.

_________________
Image

Image Image
Bibby Team | MFGG3 Github
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [mx]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:21 pm 
User avatar
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
Well spoken.

_________________
REF

Image


[11:11:51 PM] Stacks-of-Phone: Gato will eventually ascend, his consciousness transferred to hard disk
[11:12:00 PM] Stacks-of-Phone: he lives the rest of his life, a live2D facerig
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:04 am 
User avatar
Resident Ninnyhammer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
I think I've gotten a little better when it comes to snapping at members who are merely immature or annoying, though I wouldn't say I'm close to being entirely unfazed yet.

I think Mors brings up a point regarding members who simply will not listen to what you have to say. It's generally best to ignore these members and starve them of the attention they seem to crave. Forums like these have ignore lists (called "foes" here) in their User CPs for a reason; use them to hide posts from users who get on your nerves so they'll be less able to get on your nerves.

_________________
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:11 am 
User avatar
Member
VinnyVideo wrote:
Lastly, have a random photo of Yoshi. It is impossible to be unhappy while you're looking at a cute Yoshi picture.

Image

Unless you're one of those types who really despises Yoshi. Fortunately, I'm not that type.

I still remember some of the remarks I'd gotten back when I practiced SMW hacking in 2008-09, and I can say that since I didn't know how to keep up with new codes shared at SMW Central, it set me back quite a bit. I didn't have any other software to work with, nor did I have the money for it. Now I have other software and a bit more time, so I can feel confident trying something new.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [au]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:27 am 
User avatar
Not banned.
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
As well written as this is, it's entirely fruitless. You're on a forum with a fairly young userbase, some of which haven't learned to take criticism lightly and some who haven't been taught to deliver critique well. This isn't going to change because of some nice words, and hasn't done in the 10+ years this forum has existed. Really it's only gotten worse as the sense of entitlement the younger generation has become used to has grown. It's idealistic at best but it'll slide down the page in a month or two given the current rate of posting, all you can really do is police it.


Last edited by Kritter on Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________
Image

Available for ANDROID and IOS
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:35 pm 
I hate yellow balls of consumption.
Member
[S]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
I still feel like this is important enough to be said. Besides, even if things are going pretty good, it wouldn't hurt at all to listen to these words of wisdom.

_________________
GOTM Awards:
Spoiler:
ImageImage
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:39 am 
User avatar
Huh? What? Huh?
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
(kinda x-post from the skype chat)

if complaining in the privacy of a skype chat or IM means that you don't make a pointlessly rude post on the forums, then i highly suggest people do so.

i went over this in the skype group because typically when a post worth discussing comes up, it's ran by everyone so we can all discuss it. whether or not it's completely "civil" is one thing, but i can guarantee that this extra "step" in making a post in response is important in cutting down on people being rude to be funny, seem superior, or otherwise. it lets people vent out frustrations in private so when they do make their move in the thread in question it's thought out and mostly harmless. in a way that's a huge plus that the skype group has is that that extra added discussion lets people run their posts by others and ask if it reads alright.

in short, use private venues to vent if you have to before you post. there's more than a few places you can go about in doing this, just spin the wheel and take your pick. just make sure your pick isn't the forums.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [au]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:58 am 
User avatar
Not banned.
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
I don't agree. Turns it into a hive-mind where instead of trusting yourself and posting what you feel / learning how to post without being offensive, you're enlisting others to validate your opinion whether it's right or wrong because you're around people you know will back you up, and you can't be pinged for what kind of thing you say because it's not official.

_________________
Image

Available for ANDROID and IOS
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:50 am 
User avatar
People hate my art. Why even bother...
Member
I should REAAAAAALLY take time to read all of this...

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:31 am 
User avatar
Huh? What? Huh?
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
Kritter wrote:
I don't agree. Turns it into a hive-mind where instead of trusting yourself and posting what you feel / learning how to post without being offensive, you're enlisting others to validate your opinion whether it's right or wrong because you're around people you know will back you up, and you can't be pinged for what kind of thing you say because it's not official.

then we discuss it. people've posted opposing opinions there before, we're not gonna crucify people for it. people mostly "ask for validation" as a form of proofreading.

also, why would you not want people to test the waters on something that's potentially offensive? like, what is the benefit of not being told " don't post that, you sound needlessly rude/angry/etc". that doesn't make any sense to me.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:04 pm 
User avatar
Resident Ninnyhammer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Mit wrote:
if complaining in the privacy of a skype chat or IM means that you don't make a pointlessly rude post on the forums, then i highly suggest people do so.

As VinnyVideo was writing this, he called it his "Be Nice" lecture, not "Be Nice on the Forums and the Mainsite" lecture. While it was made in response to a problem on the forums, it applies to your usage of the internet in general, and would be something to keep in mind in real life as well.

_________________
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:20 pm 
User avatar
Huh? What? Huh?
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
Cap'n Coconuts wrote:
Mit wrote:
if complaining in the privacy of a skype chat or IM means that you don't make a pointlessly rude post on the forums, then i highly suggest people do so.

As VinnyVideo was writing this, he called it his "Be Nice" lecture, not "Be Nice on the Forums and the Mainsite" lecture. While it was made in response to a problem on the forums, it applies to your usage of the internet in general, and would be something to keep in mind in real life as well.

obviously, but you can't tell people to not discuss what they feel in their own privacy. talking in private is DEFINITELY not an internet equivalent to "talking behind one's back", especially if they don't have the ability to see it in the first place.

EDIT: the idea of trying to control what circulates in privacy is really bothering me. a skype group is, more or less, privacy. it's more privacy than the IRC is. it's also more open to any kinds of discussion. there's a reason why people don't discuss problematic threads there, and it's not only out of fear of the user in question showing up.

if you've got something negative on your mind and it involves someone else, would you discuss it with someone like a counselor or parent, or the person in question, in public?

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [tt]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:50 pm 
User avatar
:D
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Criticism is fine and I can take it, especially constructive critisism on something I'm working on. I just don't like when it becomes asshol-y and insulting.
Incidentally the time I lost my sh*t the most at an MFGGer was when a guy cheated Wonder Guard on a Spiritomb on an online match in Pokemon (meaning it was immune to virtually every attack move in the game) and I got pissed off beyond belief when his response was "Learn 2 play".
Thankfully that wouldn't fly in XY.

 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [au]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:20 pm 
User avatar
Not banned.
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
Mit wrote:
if you've got something negative on your mind and it involves someone else, would you discuss it with someone like a counselor or parent, or the person in question, in public?


I would discuss it with the person via PM? On the forums? I don't need to seek validation for my opinions elsewhere.

_________________
Image

Available for ANDROID and IOS
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:59 pm 
User avatar
Huh? What? Huh?
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
Kritter wrote:
Mit wrote:
if you've got something negative on your mind and it involves someone else, would you discuss it with someone like a counselor or parent, or the person in question, in public?


I would discuss it with the person via PM? On the forums? I don't need to seek validation for my opinions elsewhere.

over PM is still privacy. it's called "private messaging" for a good reason.

that entire post was about not being rude to someone to their face. virtually nothing with the validity of an opinion. the forums is "in public", technically. this entire thread is about not being rude both in general and when discussing criticism. personally i think if you absolutely have to be rude, you should save it for a more private setting so you can calm down before you jump down someone's throat.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 
 
 [au]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:21 pm 
User avatar
Not banned.
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
All it sounds like you're doing is encouraging talking about someone behind their back in a chat environment that the original party isn't privy to. How is a Skype group more private than an IRC? Or any other multi-user chat medium for that matter? It's only private because the person you're complaining about isn't there to read/hear what you're saying. And if there's an issue on the forums, why take it offside instead of trying to work it out in an "open forum" as it were? It might make YOU feel better to get it all of your chest, "oh user X is so annoying my friends!!", but it resolves nothing until you actually involve that person.

_________________
Image

Available for ANDROID and IOS
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [ca]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:32 pm 
User avatar
Watashi Wa
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
A Skype group is absolutely more private than an IRC.

That isn't even up for debate. IRC's can be joined by anyone while most Skype groups are invite-only.

_________________
My games | My twitter | My stream | Sprites Unlimited

Image
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
 [us]
 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:40 pm 
User avatar
Resident Ninnyhammer
Member
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]
Syaxamaphone wrote:
A Skype group is absolutely more private than an IRC.

That isn't even up for debate. IRC's can be joined by anyone while most Skype groups are invite-only.

I'm afraid you're mistaken. Not all IRC channels can be joined by just anyone. Mode +i (invite) and +k (key) exist on EsperNET as well as any other good IRC network, and +r requires a NickServ-registered nick. You can also hide it from channel lists with +s (secret), and many clients support a secure SSL connection. IRC channels can be just as private as a Skype chat, if not more so.


Last edited by Cap'n Coconuts on Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________
 
Top
Offline 
 User page at mfgg.net
 
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next  [ 59 posts ]  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.Forum locked 


Who is online

Users browsing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group