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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:45 pm 
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yes but your IRC doesn't require/have any of that

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:47 pm 
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My entire understanding of the inner working of the IRC has been turned on its side.

In that case, carry on then.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:54 pm 
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LuigiM9 wrote:
yes but your IRC doesn't require/have any of that

So far, it hasn't actually needed any of it. I was just correcting Syaxamaphone. Now can we get a little more on-topic with this Be Nice lecture instead of talking about chat features?

In other news, the Yoshi is a nice Yoshi. I would have preferred kittens, though.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:23 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
I don't agree. Turns it into a hive-mind where instead of trusting yourself and posting what you feel / learning how to post without being offensive, you're enlisting others to validate your opinion whether it's right or wrong because you're around people you know will back you up, and you can't be pinged for what kind of thing you say because it's not official.

I actually agree with Kritter, for the most part. Now, I don't think it's "encouraging" people to be negative, at least not in the strongest sense, but this ^^ is what it will devolve to, unfortunately. And honestly, that's exactly what happens already. The hive mind in the skype chat is very real. Hatred of a certain member, if I recall correctly, started in the skype chat from people complaining about them.

It's a double-edged sword; in small doses it helps some, but in large doses it causes more problems than would exist without it. I think that Cap'n is right to say that this should be taken as an overall "Be Nice" thread rather than just being nice on MFGG. If people took it that way, there would be a real change.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:49 pm 
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i... still don't see how the skype group has a hive mind mentality. people agreeing =/= a hivemind, plus as i said earlier, there are people who disagree, and again, we don't crucify them for it. tumblr's got a hivemind where a HUGE majority of people agree on one thing and obsess over it and if anyone disagree they literally send death threats and wishes of suicide. that doesn't sound like people discussing things in a skype group to me.

apparently i've gotta explain it again, but i think if someone has to insult someone, maybe they should do it in private so they could calm down and NOT do it in public. this is like, basic public etiquette last i checked. you should try to have at least SOME bit of tact when formulating a public opinion, but what's done in private is your own personal business. dragging private and/or personal matters into things is typically completely unnecessary, which is why i don't think this is a bad idea. you can of course confront people about the matter, but i still think it's best taken to private, so as to not derail threads or disrupt the community.

talking with someone in private on skype or in an irc (assuming it's a private one) or ANY private setting is completely different from talking behind someone's back. you don't HAVE to like anybody, let alone pretend to, but if you're gonna have the nerve to insult others or belittle publicly just because you disagree, then you should be rethinking your approach. on a forum where being unbiased is key, this seems fairly important.

this is all trying to squeeze some manners out of people on the forums and main site, which is where it matters most in terms of MFGG. it's important for people to be nice, but you really can't expect people to be nice and friendly 100% of the time 100% of their life. it's inhuman, and it's impossible. the best we can really try to do or enforce is to have people be nice in public. that's what i'm trying to say here. you can't control someone's personal life, but you can try to influence their public image.

i'm aware this thread is about trying to be nice. you shouldn't just openly insult or be rude or belittle people, both here or at all. but keeping everything to oneself isn't good either. that can only make people angrier so when they eventually snap they start lashing out even worse than before.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:59 am 
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I think it's kind of a hivemind because it seems like a majority of the people in the skype group tend to join in on the bashing, and nobody really ever defends the person. That doesn't mean everybody thinks the exact same thing, but it does mean that the spoken opinion of the chat is entirely one-sided.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:12 am 
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HylianDev wrote:
I think it's kind of a hivemind because it seems like a majority of the people in the skype group tend to join in on the bashing, and nobody really ever defends the person. That doesn't mean everybody thinks the exact same thing, but it does mean that the spoken opinion of the chat is entirely one-sided.


Don't you think I should be the one who says this? I really should, but since its coming from someone who is more respected than me and in a position of power, im just going to say that the Skype group isn't a hivemind as there are members there from past and present incarnations of the Unofficial Skype group who have different opinions from others but one can think of it that way because of the opposing side making terrible arguments against the side that has sold the others from my observations.

If is not apparent, I am one of the people who will give others the benefit of the doubt seeing as I consider myself to be freely thinking for himself


Last edited by DarkSideStrike on Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:13 am 
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HylianDev wrote:
I think it's kind of a hivemind because it seems like a majority of the people in the skype group tend to join in on the bashing, and nobody really ever defends the person. That doesn't mean everybody thinks the exact same thing, but it does mean that the spoken opinion of the chat is entirely one-sided.

i still don't think so. last i checked (most) people didn't outright bash anyone both in and out of the group last time there was a big "thing" unless it was on their own accord, it was mostly just venting frustrations. and again even then i know for a fact that there were some people in there on the opposing side. but either way i think that kind of thing happens by chance, in a completely off-topic comparison it's like asking people if they think pollution is good. you're not gonna get very many people defending the other side 100% because even the people iffy on the subject realize that at the very least there is, at the very least, a valid issue being presented. the group's seen more conflicted opinions in the past, it's just that the one still on everyone's minds has been the most prominent (despite not playing that large of a part, since most of the people that go out and baselessly insult things either aren't in the group at all or didn't run it by anyone, again going off on their own accord)

either way this all isn't exclusive to the MFGG skype group. everything i've said basically applies to any skype group as well as any IRC or any private outlet. at this point getting into the specific issues of the MFGG skype group or the IRC is going a bit off-topic, though that's not to say it's not a discussion worth having.

also a hivemind is literally a group of people sharing the same opinions and mindset. "a collective consciousness" is a more specific definition.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:05 am 
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I think we argue amongst ourselves in the Skype group enough to rule out the hive mind theory.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:45 am 
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Mit wrote:
talking with someone in private

No one is arguing against the ability to speak privately with someone. They take issue with the bashing and insults in said private discussions. Using "talking with someone in private" in this circumstance is a fallacy.

Quote:
on skype or in an irc (assuming it's a private one) or ANY private setting is completely different from talking behind someone's back.

Okay then, let's see what the dictionaries say.

McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs wrote:
without someone's knowledge; secret from someone.

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition wrote:
In one's absence or without one's knowledge.

Cambridge Idioms Dictionary, 2nd ed wrote:
if you do something behind someone's back, you do it without them knowing, in a way which is unfair


So you, sir, are utterly wrong.

People talk about others in secret all the time for various reasons, some less noble than others. I'm sure the staff and anyone who talks with the staff talk about people, because policing users is the staff's responsibility. Your quote-unquote "speaking privately" is a different beast. When I left your Skype group, there had been several incidents of blatant insults directed towards various MFGGers, with one in particular having had his intelligence frequently insulted. That is unfair, inconsiderate, and unacceptable, and I'm sure it violates the moral tenets of several world religions.

If you honestly believe that you should cope with your feelings toward certain people by bashing them elsewhere, then maybe you should ask yourself if you should even be having those feelings at all. At the very least, look into a more sensible form of anger management.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:54 am 
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Syaxamaphone wrote:
I think we argue amongst ourselves in the Skype group enough to rule out the hive mind theory.


It's not a theory, it's how people function in a social environment. People with a seething issue to air will just about always seek out someone else to validate their opinion, be it online or in real life. Generally you're not gonna hang around many people who don't automatically share the same viewpoint, especially about things like members that you have a certain grievance with, and those with a differing view will be far less likely to say so if they're vastly outnumbered by the brood.

Really, who cares. The point is, I think if you have an opinion about something or someone on this forum, it should be discussed ON the forum either via PM or directly. This is doubly so if it's about a certain individual, otherwise you're just talking about them behind their back without them having a chance to defend their viewpoint, and I find that cowardly and petty whether you believe that's what you're doing or not.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:56 am 
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it's ironic
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Kritter wrote:
Really it's only gotten worse as the sense of entitlement the younger generation has become used to has grown.

You should ask your fellow 31-year-olds and other adult peers to focus more on raising their children properly then instead of goofing off online and complaining about their behavior to strangers on the internet.

I don't pay enough attention to the Skype group or the forums anymore to really get the gist of the main topic so I probably shouldn'tve posted, but maybe we should open a Constructive Criticism Castle and go around in a circle and discuss each other's flaws.

EDIT: This post sucks and is uncharacteristically bitter of me, remind me to think next time before I post.


Last edited by ~CaMtEnDo~ on Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:32 am 
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Cap'n Coconuts wrote:

If you honestly believe that you should cope with your feelings toward certain people by bashing them elsewhere, then maybe you should ask yourself if you should even be having those feelings at all. At the very least, look into a more sensible form of anger management.

then i don't suppose you mind telling us what you said when you admitted to "relaying our quotes" to others when you left the group? it is unfair, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Syaxamaphone wrote:
I think we argue amongst ourselves in the Skype group enough to rule out the hive mind theory.

Lately, that hasn't really been the case. Even in the past, arguments have been more or equally ad Hominem toward outliers than on the actual topic at hand. If I understand the "hive" in this context correctly, in which folks form a swarm to push one opinion, then it's a fairly reasonable comparison to make.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:13 pm 
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I agree with Mit. There's nothing wrong with discussing about someone without bashing or being offensive.

HylianDev wrote:
it seems like a majority of the people in the skype group tend to join in on the bashing, and nobody really ever defends the person.

You made the Skype group sound like a terrible place where we trashtalk about members of of MFGG.
Seriously, what's with people thinking Skype group is a horrible place where everyone trash talks and ****posts. Yea, it used to be pretty bad but that's not the case anymore. This reminds me of how people bash Hello Engine and say "the physics are horrible" and "there is no comments" while these were fixed years ago. You guys need to stop prejudging stuff.

~CaMtEnDo~ wrote:
You should ask your fellow 31-year-olds and other adult peers to focus more on raising their children properly then instead of goofing off online and complaining about their behavior to strangers on the internet.

Everything is wrong with this sentence, but it's great that you could realize your mistake. That's something rare to see on the internet.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:05 pm 
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There's nothing wrong with venting every now and then. Likewise, getting a second opinion from a friend can be a wise decision when you're unsure how to deal with a problem. However, when you're venting your frustrations in an invitation-only Skype group with a fairly large audience (maybe something in the ballpark of 30-40 people?), that's beginning to sound a whole lot like "talking behind someone's back." When you get to that point, venting becomes a lot less healthy - especially when you're complaining about an individual that other people in the group interact with regularly.

It's been quite a few months since I'm been in the Unofficial Skype Group, so I can't make a fair evaluation of what the group's atmosphere has been like lately. I will say that one of the major reasons why I left the group is because there was a lot of negativity and bickering, usually about trivial things that didn't even interest me. I've tried to stay out of Skype disputes lately, but when problems start on Skype and spread to the forums, it's necessary for the staff to know what's going on. Again, I haven't been in that group for a while, so I don't know what it's been like in recent months.

Thinking back to my days when I was constantly engrossed in the joy of endless academic team projects, I encountered quite a few people who frustrated me at some point in time. I can't say I never complained about them in a publicly-accessible online community - although in those cases, the odds of any of you ever encountering and recognizing those people are about nil. Either way, I found that if I was having a problem, communicating with the other person in a civil way always resulted in a better understanding of the problem and an improvement in the situation. Even in other online communities where I'm not an admin, talking directly, openly, and respectfully with members who were butting heads didn't hurt. And, of course, if someone is breaking the rules on MFGG, you can always hit the "Report" button so the staff can take a look at any iffy posts.

I would like to reiterate that while my "Be Nice" lecture focused on the MFGG forums and mainsite, it wouldn't hurt to apply these principles elsewhere in the online world - and in real life, too! I don't expect people to pretend to be rainbows and sunshine every second of every day, but if you find yourself disliking too many people too strongly, the problem could the person you see when you look in the mirror. You might need to work on reacting to frustration in a healthier manner. Lastly, it's worth remembering that most of the things people disagree about on the Internet aren't incredibly important in the grand scheme of things, so sometimes it's best just to take a step back, chill out, and "let it go."

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:31 pm 
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~CaMtEnDo~ wrote:
Kritter wrote:
Really it's only gotten worse as the sense of entitlement the younger generation has become used to has grown.

You should ask your fellow 31-year-olds and other adult peers to focus more on raising their children properly then instead of goofing off online and complaining about their behavior to strangers on the internet.

I don't pay enough attention to the Skype group or the forums anymore to really get the gist of the main topic so I probably shouldn'tve posted, but maybe we should open a Constructive Criticism Castle and go around in a circle and discuss each other's flaws.

EDIT: This post sucks and is uncharacteristically bitter of me, remind me to think next time before I post.


Having an opinion about something does not equal "goofing off online and complaining". Think before you post.

Also way to get personal about something when my opinion happens to differ from yours. That's poor form in a topic about being nice, how dare you.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Kritter wrote:
~CaMtEnDo~ wrote:
Kritter wrote:
Really it's only gotten worse as the sense of entitlement the younger generation has become used to has grown.

You should ask your fellow 31-year-olds and other adult peers to focus more on raising their children properly then instead of goofing off online and complaining about their behavior to strangers on the internet.

I don't pay enough attention to the Skype group or the forums anymore to really get the gist of the main topic so I probably shouldn'tve posted, but maybe we should open a Constructive Criticism Castle and go around in a circle and discuss each other's flaws.

EDIT: This post sucks and is uncharacteristically bitter of me, remind me to think next time before I post.


Having an opinion about something does not equal "goofing off online and complaining". Think before you post.

Also way to get personal about something when my opinion happens to differ from yours. That's poor form in a topic about being nice, how dare you.

Your time spent voicing your opinion to deaf ears could be spent fixing what you're complaining about. Your opinion is a personal one to begin with, it's a hollow statement that's been parroted by generation after generation of adults who won't take responsibility for their lack of action.
My post originally mentioned the whole "topic about being nice" point but I made sure to edit that out and pad it with an apology in case you or anyone else took it too personally.

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:43 pm 
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i'd rather not participate in the discussion
99% the reason because i'd just ruin everything with my terrible argumenting abilities (R)

but i'd like to add:
talking behind one's back isn't cool.
a while back, certain people talked behind my back while i wasn't in the newer skype group.
t'was about things that clearly could've been said right in front of me.
assumptions that i could've "corrected"
things that i agreed (and disagreed)
things that could have just been talked out.
but no! you have to do it in secret because You Don't Want To "Offend" Anyone And Will Still Act As Your "Friend" Even Though You Have Some Issues With The Guy! ! !
Not talking about privacy stuff, but on the topic of it, talking it out with someone you'd like to complain about in public isn't the best solution...



...but, well... in the end
everyone just becomes a good little hypocrite, and talks behind the backs of each other anyway

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 Post subject: Re: An important public service message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:40 pm 
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~CaMtEnDo~ wrote:
Kritter wrote:
~CaMtEnDo~ wrote:
You should ask your fellow 31-year-olds and other adult peers to focus more on raising their children properly then instead of goofing off online and complaining about their behavior to strangers on the internet.

I don't pay enough attention to the Skype group or the forums anymore to really get the gist of the main topic so I probably shouldn'tve posted, but maybe we should open a Constructive Criticism Castle and go around in a circle and discuss each other's flaws.

EDIT: This post sucks and is uncharacteristically bitter of me, remind me to think next time before I post.


Having an opinion about something does not equal "goofing off online and complaining". Think before you post.

Also way to get personal about something when my opinion happens to differ from yours. That's poor form in a topic about being nice, how dare you.

Your time spent voicing your opinion to deaf ears could be spent fixing what you're complaining about. Your opinion is a personal one to begin with, it's a hollow statement that's been parroted by generation after generation of adults who won't take responsibility for their lack of action.
My post originally mentioned the whole "topic about being nice" point but I made sure to edit that out and pad it with an apology in case you or anyone else took it too personally.


That entire post is pure garbage that adds absolutely nothing to this discussion, I don't even know which part of it to pick apart so I won't bother at all other than to say move along.

I will say there's a difference between a personal opinion about relevent subject matter, and a personal attack for the sake of being nasty. You've no idea of the difference apparently. You also don't know how to apologise because none of your "apology" was addressed to me, just a general self-opinion about how bad you are at posting, and it's garbage like this that ruins a potentially good, deep discussion with two sides, when you force me to storm in and defend myself over something that has no bearing on ANYTHING. Think before you post indeed.

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