I think the issue with the folded arms on your Mario is that the hand close to us doesn't really look like it's coming from behind the arm like Koops's hand does. It just looks like it's floating in front of the arm.

[list] [*]The Ultra Hammer looks better to me. I think you picked the right choice for the Ultra Hammer's shine. [*]I liked Mario's pose when he carries the hammer, although as zXspriter said, I think it looks a bit stiff. Maybe try moving his feet to the left (from our view on him), and see how that looks? [*]As Evil Yoshi Toes said, I think what makes Mario's folded arms look weird is the fact that the hand closer to us doesn't seem to connected to an arm and instead looks like it was floating by it's own. I think having Mario's folded arms look more like Bowser's folded arms in PM:TTYD would look better. [*]The Goombario mouths look good to me. A looks better to me, so I would pick that. [*]The wing choices seem fine to me. [*]Mario's chin looks better it was before to me.[/list]

[quote="Rocky"]Uhh is that Peach in a bikini? O.o[/quote] Actually, that's her in a leotard, but I understand why you'd make that assumption do to how much I cut off from it. Now, before I showcase today's progress, I have a surprise today! If you check these spoiler tags, you'll find the completed sheets for the Goomba characters I'll place in the first short! Please note that the Lonely Goomba's sheet is not here because fan characters aren't allowed for submission from what I understand. [spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/nWszNVC.png[/img][/spoiler] [spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/aa0Hx8q.png[/img][/spoiler] [spoiler][img]https://i.imgur.com/9y8maBJ.png[/img][/spoiler] Alright, now for the main event! I would have done more, but this progress sheet is already rather crowded... [img]https://i.imgur.com/aRQvZ4B.png[/img]

I feel like Mario's hand is going through his neck in those Bowser-based crossed arm poses. His hand goes a little too much under his chin. I'd also maybe make his left arm look shorter, and maybe change that hand a bit so it looks more foreshortened and like it's facing more toward us. :D Also I think that other set of crossed arms would work well for Luigi :agree: And I think pose B looks best for the hammer pose

[quote="E-Man"]Please note that the Lonely Goomba's sheet is not here because fan characters aren't allowed for submission from what I understand.[/quote] Wasn't a candy-themed Goomba on the Mainsite once? I know it was taken down because it stole parts from another Mainsite sheet, but it was still a fan character.

Despite what you're saying, Willsaber, it's probably a safe bet if I just not upload the Lonely Goomba. So, here's my newest progress sheet. I was running out of part to work on, so I cut this a bit short this time. How is it? [img]https://i.imgur.com/4bCzdxY.png[/img]

I think D is the best folded-armed pose.

Just make a new part for folded arms, none of them look very good

You're really pushing it with the brutal honesty here, Kirby's Adventure. With that said, I'll see about making new arms; however, I would appreciate you telling me when I get the arms right instead of leaving me hanging.

I mean the example in the upper left of the image pretty much has it down, I'd build the new part off of that

You mean the image CaptainKaKarot64 created (it's next to the Peach sprite)? I was going to use Rawk Hawk as the new base, but I'm fine with using her example instead.

Yeah, the one next to Peach. I think the current Bowser style ones really only work for Bowser, but considering how you work it may be best to make a version based on Rawk Hawk's as well

I'll have to go with KA here. I think Bowser's pose looked right in my mind, but Mario's model just wasn't made for it. Bowser's chin points outward, allowing his right arm to appear in front. His model is also crouched forward, so that allows more space considering what I mentioned with his head. Mario, however, is in a straight pose, and his chin takes up most of the bottom of his head. Peach's model however, works because she stands upward. Despite being such a minature sprite, I think it would work for Mario. As for Mario's hammer pose, C seems to work best seeing as the hand is partially behind him. It looked right with the other examples given as well.

[quote="Kirby's Adventure"]but considering how you work[/quote] I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to imply by that comment, but I created the two sets all the same. I couldn't get them to look exactly like their actual counterparts withotu making the arms too long, so I hope this is fine. [img]https://i.imgur.com/Jpm9kDZ.png[/img]

i think you need to work on having better silhouettes. a lot of these poses look very similar because silhouette-wise they're hard to see what's going on. mario's arms being crossed as well as the hammer charge are good examples, the poses need to be pushed further.

Mit, you need to understand that the lack of a good silhouette is a weakness I am well aware of when working in this style. Heck, [b]it's even a problem with the original sprites from the actual games[/b]. I actually touched upon this in a pervious post. http://phpbb.mfgg.net/viewtopic.php?p=502076#p502076 The only other way I could have better silhouettes is to ditch the puppet style completely and make it work like how it is in a game like [i]DuckTales: Remastered[/i]; however, I'm not doing that. Beside the fact that it would cost a good amount of resources to get it just right (i.e. bunches of individual frames outside of Maya that I have to keep track of), the primary reason is that it won't make it Paper Mario anymore. It'll be a nice-looking animation, but it won't be the kind of cut-out style Paper Mario is known for in the second and third games. I'll still try to aim for better silhouettes, but I'm working under restrictions right here to keep the overall art direction intact. I did the best I could with the cross arms and the hammer pose as far as I can tell, so just telling me to keep pushing these poses is doing nothing but trying my patience.

i didn't mean any harm by what i said. if what i said is "trying your patience" then that just means that it really is something you should look into. pushing poses has absolutely nothing to do with the cut-out style if TTYD used the same structure and had absolutely no problems with making each pose look dynamic and distinct. [img]http://i.imgur.com/aTn1X8y.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ohYtj6S.png[/img] you need to keep body shapes in mind and why TTYD made the choices it made for its body parts and shapes.

[quote="E-Man"][quote="Kirby's Adventure"]but considering how you work[/quote] I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to imply by that comment[/quote] You explore each possibility before finalizing a pose in this case

Okay, let me discuss my thoughts on these new critiques, shall we? [attachment=0]Progress_sheet2.png[/attachment]

the arms folded needs his back arm otherwise it loses the width needed to have a good silhouette. it also makes his arms and hands look very small without them. as for the hammer pose, it may come as a shock to know that that is the "real pose" [url=https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/26961/]taken straight from the rips on tSR.[/url] this should be a sign that with this method of cut-out animation, you need to "cheat" where applicable to get better, more dynamic poses. paper mario, while using all constructed assets, still has line of action and silhouette. this is because both are vital in any kind of character animation, and there's no excuses to not taking it into account. if it's difficult, then you need to work out all the kinks before you get deep into it. at the same time, it's not a good idea to ask for suggestions regarding every little change you make, because honestly if hearing the same thing over and over [i]isn't[/i] what you want, this method is asking for it. [img]http://i.imgur.com/IPCTUzt.png[/img] the original TTYD has a lot of subtleties you either didn't take into account or didn't notice that make mario's line of action still work, even though he's entirely segmented. yes, the hammer makes no sense, but it looks nice regardless, and that's the point. it doesn't have to make immediate sense if the silhouette and pose are strong enough, which they are. having that hammer way out along with the way his torso is angled makes the pose, which is a windup for a strong attack, seem strong. [img]http://i.imgur.com/4P6Wqsk.png[/img] the pose you said "won't fly" because of the position of the hammer has a decent line of action that can easily be improved. the angle of the torso disjoints the line so it can hit the foot comfortably, which should be adjusted so it's one elongated contour. this doesn't seem as strong as the TTYD pose, but it's at least stronger than one of the poses you've settled on. [img]http://i.imgur.com/y3KoZ87.png[/img] this pose has a similar line of action to the previous one, however, the shortening of the hammer kills some of the strength the pose has as well as makes the hammer seem less weighty. as for your commentary regarding the pose, take this into account- [img]http://i.imgur.com/TuCKFoR.png[/img] this is a very rough sketch of what mario's pose would be on a more anatomically correct body. you can see that the line of action is virtually the same here as it is on mario, and you can see where the strength of the stance lies. he's winding up for a horizontal hammer swing, and a big one to boot- the weight on his foot is in his background leg, not the foreground leg which is on its toes. it's very important to show the windup of the action before executing it- anticipation is key to a powerful animation. kirby's poses function similarly- [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/31/e7/10/31e710cc1436d2894c08e704887798b2.jpg[/img] he's a pink ball, yes, but his poses still carry the same dynamism as the human figure beside him. character shape should never and can never get in the way of one's ability to make a dynamic pose, and kirby as well as paper mario are no different.