Tywex wrote:
Mario & Luigi game with partners
I'm working on an original RPG that ended up being a spiritual successor to Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. At one point in development, we had partners in the game, but we ended up realizing that there was no clean way to integrate partners into the M&L system. Superstar Saga is legit one of the most tightly designed games I've ever played, and part of that is in the game design. Here's what I mean:
A) Mario and Luigi are controlled by A and B respectively (with one exception that imo should've still operated this way). Paper Jam proves that a third character can be operated with Y if necessary.
B) Every character's attacks mirror their overworld abilities. Whenever you unlock a new move (Jumping, Hammer, Hand), you can immediately use it as a Solo attack. Once you learn how to use it with both Mario and Luigi at once (Spin, High, etc.) then you immediately unlock a Bros. attack related to that.
C) Partners, at least in Paper Mario, aren't fully developed player characters. They don't level up with Mario, they don't have as many equips, they can't jump in the overworld on command, etc. They are supposed to enhance a single character (Mario), not hold their own alongside him, and especially not alongside Luigi too. This is why you instantly lose when Mario dies in Paper Mario.
D) Every partner is totally different. Because they don't need to jump in the overworld, they each have completely different movesets, and nothing in Paper Mario's game design makes this a bad thing.
So here are the conflicts. If you have multiple partners possible in the third position, then Y isn't relegated to a specific character like A and B are, it's relegated to a "character slot" which doesn't feel as tight as A and B are [section A]. You can't really have Bros. attacks, because each partner's kit is totally different and would have to interact with the Bros. in unique ways. This is overly ambitious to develop, and the player will have a very difficult time learning every Bros. attack for every partner [paragraph D].
Partners will almost be
required to have a jump attack because jumping is necessary for M&L's overworld design conventions. If they jumped automatically like in Paper Mario, why don't Mario and Luigi automatically jump too [section B/C]?
You see how mixing together disparate game designs can result in a lot of complications? You should first determine
what the game that you want to make really is. If you want to make a Paper Mario-esque game, that's acceptable. If you want to make a Mario & Luigi-esque game, that's super cool and I salute you, though it will be more ambitious. If you want to make a game design that is unlike either of those, that's also great. There are tons of amazing RPGs for you to take inspiration from, and being a Mario fangame doesn't necessarily confine you to a certain set of design conventions.
[quote="Tywex"]Mario & Luigi game with partners[/quote]
I'm working on an original RPG that ended up being a spiritual successor to Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. At one point in development, we had partners in the game, but we ended up realizing that there was no clean way to integrate partners into the M&L system. Superstar Saga is legit one of the most tightly designed games I've ever played, and part of that is in the game design. Here's what I mean:
A) Mario and Luigi are controlled by A and B respectively (with one exception that imo should've still operated this way). Paper Jam proves that a third character can be operated with Y if necessary.
B) Every character's attacks mirror their overworld abilities. Whenever you unlock a new move (Jumping, Hammer, Hand), you can immediately use it as a Solo attack. Once you learn how to use it with both Mario and Luigi at once (Spin, High, etc.) then you immediately unlock a Bros. attack related to that.
C) Partners, at least in Paper Mario, aren't fully developed player characters. They don't level up with Mario, they don't have as many equips, they can't jump in the overworld on command, etc. They are supposed to enhance a single character (Mario), not hold their own alongside him, and especially not alongside Luigi too. This is why you instantly lose when Mario dies in Paper Mario.
D) Every partner is totally different. Because they don't need to jump in the overworld, they each have completely different movesets, and nothing in Paper Mario's game design makes this a bad thing.
So here are the conflicts. If you have multiple partners possible in the third position, then Y isn't relegated to a specific character like A and B are, it's relegated to a "character slot" which doesn't feel as tight as A and B are [section A]. You can't really have Bros. attacks, because each partner's kit is totally different and would have to interact with the Bros. in unique ways. This is overly ambitious to develop, and the player will have a very difficult time learning every Bros. attack for every partner [paragraph D].
Partners will almost be [i]required[/i] to have a jump attack because jumping is necessary for M&L's overworld design conventions. If they jumped automatically like in Paper Mario, why don't Mario and Luigi automatically jump too [section B/C]?
You see how mixing together disparate game designs can result in a lot of complications? You should first determine [i]what[/i] the game that you want to make really is. If you want to make a Paper Mario-esque game, that's acceptable. If you want to make a Mario & Luigi-esque game, that's super cool and I salute you, though it will be more ambitious. If you want to make a game design that is unlike either of those, that's also great. There are tons of amazing RPGs for you to take inspiration from, and being a Mario fangame doesn't necessarily confine you to a certain set of design conventions.