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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:57 pm 
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i wasn't going to throw my two cents at this thread or anything but then i saw some of your replies to the fairly sensible advice from everyone here and figured "what the hell"

okay let's start with this attitude of yours - i'm not sure what posts you're reading, but nobody here is trying to put you down or tell you you can't do "this" or can't do "that", i think you have it all wrong. it feels like you're taking everyone's earnest requests to start small (a fairly common tactic in learning how to do... well like anything) as if they're demands to scrap all your big ideas and be forced to churn out some crappy, worth nothing garbage

i can assure you with 100% accuracy that trying to tackle a huge project such as this without any coding experience whatsoever will end in failure. you keep saying that nobody's helping you but they are, they've been recommending you tutorials and ways to get started and it seems you won't be satisfied until someone is holding your hand through the entire process, which kind of ruins the point of learning how to do anything

the reason people are asking you to start small is not to belittle you or because they think you're stupid, it's because you're inexperienced, which directly correlates to your ability to successfully create something of this caliber. shocking as it may be to find out, game development is not some a-to-b task that you just pick up on as you begin, it's something that takes a lot of practice and a lot of time, and that's why starting small and working your way up is a smart idea. there is no "and if i fail that is okay i'll just start again" about it, because you will fail if you have zero experience and whether you're okay with it or not is irrelevant. you have to work on varied smaller projects to prepare yourself for something large, and i know that just sounds like me telling you what to do but please, take it from the experience of someone who used to be exactly like you and used to start and stop so many projects out of sheer naivety until she had nothing to show for her efforts over the last decade

now i know what you'll say, and it's something you've already said to some of the people trying to help you, "but wait vimimin, i'll be different! bet you never considered that, huh??"

that's what every eager newcomer says

you have to be willing to start from the bottom if you ever want to see the top, and while you may think what you're doing is starting from the humble, lowest level of your tenure as a game developer, the harsh truth is that you're wanting to jump to the middle and then work your way to the top

so go ahead, make your super mario 64 2d remake which is such an obscenely tall task that the minute you begin working on it you'll suddenly realize just how big of a game super mario 64 really is (along with the plethora of mechanics you'll have to program, as hylian pointed out), in fact i encourage you to at least give it a shot

once you start trying to work your way around anything resembling a first area or level, you'll realize everything everyone was saying was true. it may take a bit to hit, you might even be just as stubborn with yourself as were with us, but it'll eventually hit you

this is not a wake up call or a demand to admit that you're wrong and that we're right, but a plea to listen to people who were in the same position as you were and had to learn from smaller stepping stones to truly make progress. the advice "practice makes perfect" is so well known it has practically become a cliche, and yet it will always ring true. take your time with things, you're in no rush to make the next big fangame

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:58 pm 
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So if you know how to do all that stuff, then why not help me out instead of telling me how I can't do this?

Because I'm not a teacher, I barely have enough free time for myself, and people pay colleges tens of thousands of dollars to give them programming knowledge and experience. Remember: this is a career. The people here do it for free, but if you can remake SM64 in 2D successfully, then you're surely a pretty good programmer who, if you applied your skills to some slightly different fields, could be making a decent living. It's attainable, yeah, but it's going to be a really long, frustrating road.

I'm not saying that you can't do whatever you want, I'm telling you from a place of experience that it would be a way better idea to start from the bottom, like everybody else did.

If you still want to attempt this game, go ahead! In fact, why not do it right now? We can talk all day long, but all that matters is whether or not you're actually doing it. Go look up some tutorials, open up Game Maker, and start doing it!

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:08 am 
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TheWahGamer wrote:
Vertette wrote:
Only two weeks ago you were asking people how to make fangames and now you're confident that you'll get this done? That's certainly ambitious.

Do you have experience with game design?

Yes, yes I do.

Coding and programming are the only things I need help with. Willsaber and a couple others have been doing an awesome job at helping me out with that. So instead of telling me I can't do this and talking down to me like I'm stupid, why not give me some tips and help me out a little?

I'm disappointed in the MFGG community...

you don't need to make crappy games to start off, just get a basic understanding of coding, and then work from there, I can't promise that it'll work, but who knows?

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:53 am 
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hi hello
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No one is talking down on you like you're stupid, it's just unrealistic to plan on creating a full out Mario 64 remake as your first fangame project. Simple games can be fun too, so why not start there? But if you don't want to, then good luck on this project. I would be happy to see you make an awesome big fangame as your first project, just know that it's not super likely. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:52 pm 
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The best thing to do to start would (after you do a basic jump around engine of course) would be to individually test the things you need in the game, such as the moves, the star system (and returning to the painting you jumped into), and things like bosses. Instead of doing each level in order. You need to make a big foundation at the beginning so you can build on it. And I would recommend to start with Hello Engine to get the basic jumping, camera, etc. then delete everything that doesn't pertain to SM64. Then build from there.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Mari0:SE is not out yet :(
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Taking a different approach here, starting with a big project with a lot of code always mean coming back to what you coded and say "what was i thinking with this?", which will basically means rewriting the code you do every once in a while because you'll think that one is the final and optimal code and a few weeks later you'll notice what you did uses more memory and processes than necessary, or that you made several objects that could have been the same object with different properties, or finding a better way of doing the physics which means rewriting any references to gravity/speed/etc., and so on (i'm not a coder, i know someone who is, and these examples are roughly what i remember he said).

That might not sound bad on its own, but consider that when making games/programs, the objects often reference others, and those reference the other ones, so you will be rewriting not only one element but pretty much any element that interacts with it and maybe the ones that interact with that one, etc.

Which means, doing a big project with little experience will have you running around fixing and tweaking your past code most of the time. So, fixing one mistake and everything that was coded making reference to it is a lot more work that learning about it first, doing in right and not having to go back to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:03 pm 
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GameBoyEnhance wrote:
you don't need to make crappy games to start off, just get a basic understanding of coding, and then work from there, I can't promise that it'll work, but who knows?


I dunno, I think people should absolutely make crappy games to start with. My first games were super basic and awful by today's standards but they were fun to work on and weren't stressful like bigger projects, plus it's invaluable to learning the ropes. Simple things, like how to make a sprite animate, how to open a door or pick up an item etc. It's harder nowadays because there's so many fangames to look at and go "Gee, I wanna make something that good" compared to my day when there wasn't really a gold standard, but it still pays to make something simple to start with and work up from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:29 pm 
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A game doesn't have to be big to be good. One fangame on the site I can think of is actually Super Mario Stardust; a very solid game with about 9 or so levels. It's length doesn't matter if you have fun with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:05 pm 
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UltLuigi wrote:
A game doesn't have to be big to be good. One fangame on the site I can think of is actually Super Mario Stardust; a very solid game with about 9 or so levels. It's length doesn't matter if you have fun with it.

Super Mario Stardust is not solid at all. It's actually a deeply flawed and extremely dated game. But I do agree that a small game isn't necessarily bad. I do disagree with Kritter's assertion that one's first game must be bad because of arbitrary reasons, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Maybe crappy is the wrong word, especially when trying your best to learn, but what personally helped me learn is just making stuff and seeing what happens instead of trying to make the best game possible from the start (even if I thought the games I was making were awesome at the time). It's like endeavoring to paint the Mona Lisa when you've just learned how to hold a paintbrush. Not to say you shouldn't aspire to that, all of us here who make fangames probably want to make the best game possible, but there's nothing wrong with starting small.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:20 am 
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how will a 2d reamke of 3d game even work? none of the level's structure will translating well into a 2d platform. its impossible. the levels wont be at all the same and even if you somehow make it possible they wont be nearly as good. like why not play the original instead of a shoddy fan remake?

on a side note i dont think you will get any better as a developer because you keep intrepreting critisism as a attack on you and throwing a tantrum. critisism is needed for improving and you cannot handle any

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Sloshy wrote:
how will a 2d reamke of 3d game even work? none of the level's structure will translating well into a 2d platform. its impossible. the levels wont be at all the same and even if you somehow make it possible they wont be nearly as good. like why not play the original instead of a shoddy fan remake?

That's not necessarily true. Many fangames have approached this issue, so there is plenty of precedent in making 3D-ish environments in 2D sidescrolling space. You should go play Power Star Frenzy on the Mainsite. You've apparently got some arbitrary stigma and didn't actually think about how this kind of level design works at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Willsaber wrote:
Sloshy wrote:
how will a 2d reamke of 3d game even work? none of the level's structure will translating well into a 2d platform. its impossible. the levels wont be at all the same and even if you somehow make it possible they wont be nearly as good. like why not play the original instead of a shoddy fan remake?

That's not necessarily true. Many fangames have approached this issue, so there is plenty of precedent in making 3D-ish environments in 2D sidescrolling space. You should go play Power Star Frenzy on the Mainsite. You've apparently got some arbitrary stigma and didn't actually think about how this kind of level design works at all.


Spoiler:

psf has its own level layout its not trying to make every level an exactly 2d translate of existing videogames that is 3d. an reason psf worked a much success is bcause the maker made a create of the levels into a unique and didnt srtuggle his hinder trying to try hard making identical of super 64 levels.
and its clear you missed my piont because im not saying gaems with the same starcollection idea of super64 arent possible. im saying making a level for level identical 2d remake is unrealistic. a good one at least.

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Kootie Patootie
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Sloshy wrote:
im not saying gaems with the same starcollection idea of super64 arent possible. im saying making a level for level identical 2d remake is unrealistic. a good one at least.

Precisely where is it that TheWahGamer said he was planning on designing perfectly identical levels in 2D space? All he has said itt is that he's developing a remake of SM64 which will include every level in the original game. That does not necessarily mean they're perfectly identical (though I have gotten the impression he wants them to retain many of the same design elements).

He has said that Yoshi is gonna be able to vertically reach places that no other character can reach, which doesn't really happen in SM64DS. This alone suggests that the level design will be based around what works best for the gameplay, not what is necessarily most accurate to the source material. Super Mario 2D Universe is arguably a better comparison than Power Star Frenzy, since that game does have an actual remake of 1-1 from Super Mario 3D Land converted into 2D space, though it lacks the explorative element that Power Star Frenzy, and presumably this fangame, have. Also worth bringing up is Super Mario Flashback. Mors has shown a lot of WIP pics of Cool, Cool Mountain, and they have distinctive traits of the original level without being totally accurate in level design.


tl;dr it's a reasonable assumption to make that TheWahGamer will do what works best for this game, not what is necessarily absolutely most accurate to the source material, considering he has said nothing to the contrary.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:05 pm 
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then its not relaly a remake. even when the if level that visual are look like source gaem and called the same title
Willsaber wrote:
Precisely where is it that TheWahGamer said he was planning on designing perfectly identical levels in 2D space?

when he said its a remake

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:14 am 
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This is a stupid argument over a single word about a game that doesn't exist yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:43 am 
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e. i take back this post. i was being mean sry :(

 
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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Sloshy wrote:
e. i take back this post. i was being mean sry :(

To be fair, you brought up a really good point with this:
Sloshy wrote:
when he said its a remake

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:29 pm 
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I'm already having a crappy enough day as it is so I'm not even going to read the rest of the replies to this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a full 2D recreation of Super Mario 64
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:29 am 
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i understand that criticism can be hard to stomach (especially if your confidence has already taken a hit) but announcing that as if we're supposed to sympathize with you is incredibly misguided and egocentric

sorry your day hasn't been too great, but we're only trying to help you

 
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