as the title say sonic got so many "good" 3d engines like sonic GDK/blitz and afew other names i forgot(i think it was like +5 good working 3d sonic engines) but mario got 0 at all and we all know(not say this cuz i like mario) mario is the most known/popalur gaming character in the world but no 3d engine for mario at all so someone can maybe make fan games like we do with hello engine but in 3d instead i have been looking for afew months but non released/open source at all closest i found was a not open source mario game with bad animetions/coding since i got afew models of powerups and animetions i have made with mario bros(alittle edited brawl models/textures) and is alittle bad at coding just started with it but as i said no 3d engines at all for mario mario gets no love from programmors? or just sonic gets all the 3d programmors its not really a request for a 3d engine to mario but more a questing why non at all and thinking to make one while sonic got alot of them i kinda think its possible to make a Super mario 64 engine in game maker or a SMG engine after what i have seen what game maker can do in 3d but not sure since idk so much to code in 3d yet in game maker but learning it since i soon wanted a 3d engine for mario so i can use my animetions/models but just wanted to know what happen since sonic got all these 3d engine while mario got non at all i know 3d programming is harder then 2d but still no sign or anything of 1 working on a 3d engine for mario so we can maybe soon make 3d fan games easyer for mario with gameplay like as SM64 or SM3dland

[quote="tardis"]as the title say sonic got so many "good" 3d engines like sonic GDK/blitz and afew other names i forgot(i think it was like +5 good working 3d sonic engines) but mario got 0 at all and we all know(not say this cuz i like mario) mario is the most known/popalur gaming character in the world but no 3d engine for mario at all so someone can maybe make fan games like we do with hello engine but in 3d instead i have been looking for afew months but non released/open source at all closest i found was a not open source mario game with bad animetions/coding since i got afew models of powerups and animetions i have made with mario bros(alittle edited brawl models/textures) and is alittle bad at coding just started with it but as i said no 3d engines at all for mario mario gets no love from programmors? or just sonic gets all the 3d programmors its not really a request for a 3d engine to mario but more a questing why non at all and thinking to make one while sonic got alot of them i kinda think its possible to make a Super mario 64 engine in game maker or a SMG engine after what i have seen what game maker can do in 3d but not sure since idk so much to code in 3d yet in game maker but learning it since i soon wanted a 3d engine for mario so i can use my animetions/models but just wanted to know what happen since sonic got all these 3d engine while mario got non at all i know 3d programming is harder then 2d but still no sign or anything of 1 working on a 3d engine for mario so we can maybe soon make 3d fan games easyer for mario with gameplay like as SM64 or SM3dland[/quote] It's not that mario doesn't get love from programmers, 3D programming is much much more complicated than 2D programming,(which ot be frank alot of people have enoughtrouble as it is), plus I doubt someones goign ot spend time just ot make a 3D mario engine, they'd more or less be better of just making a 3D engine for a custom game. plus anything like hello engien in general is frowned down upon. Amnd Gamemaker has extremely primitive 3d funtions and it'd be better for the person to use actual 3D programming tools instead of gamemaker(which then leads back to the 3D programming diffuculty and time it takes to make) so that's a summarized explaination.

Having seen Yo Frankie, I imagine the job could be done just fine in Blender (with its game engine). That's probably easier than programming everything yourself.

[quote="Shadow Kami"] It's not that mario doesn't get love from programmers, 3D programming is much much more complicated than 2D programming,(which ot be frank alot of people have enoughtrouble as it is), plus I doubt someones goign ot spend time just ot make a 3D mario engine, they'd more or less be better of just making a 3D engine for a custom game. plus anything like hello engien in general is frowned down upon. Amnd Gamemaker has extremely primitive 3d funtions and it'd be better for the person to use actual 3D programming tools instead of gamemaker(which then leads back to the 3D programming diffuculty and time it takes to make) so that's a summarized explaination.[/quote] i know all that but still sonic got so many working/good engines and mario got non at all for 3d sonic even got a 3d engine made in game maker and worked almost and i even saw someone made this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWVAxHsJQP0 in game maker(one of the reasons for i think its possible to make a perfect SM64 engine in game maker) but yet non release even after long time since that video got made and it looks perfect i think that have been canceled the project and the person have left the internet and impossible to PM at all for the engine since he/she dont reply even after i said this with mario got non released 3d engines and good onces this engine is the closest i have found and the only one i know this i say now sounds alot noob-ish and child-ish but i say it anyway Mario needs Srs a good 3d engine now since sonic got alot,i think i saw a crash bandicoot and a rayman 3d engine aswell but non mario at all only 2d engines for mario i have found (not even a engine with 3d models with 2d gameplay like as new super mario bros)

I go by what Shadow Kami said. It is quite difficult to do with Game Maker.

I think one thing stopping a Mario 3D engine from existing, other than the 2D formula simply being more popular and easier to develop fangames for, is how radically different the various 3D Mario games are. The 2D games are also significantly different, but it's more simple to use Mario 3 as the base and add features from the other games. With the 3D games, there's really not much similar between them. You have levels and collect stars, and you can jump on certain enemies, but everything else is either tightly integrated into the story or just different with no clear direction to prefer. Even the way Mario is controlled is different.

[quote="onpon4"]I think one thing stopping a Mario 3D engine from existing, other than the 2D formula simply being more popular and easier to develop fangames for, is how radically different the various 3D Mario games are. The 2D games are also significantly different, but it's more simple to use Mario 3 as the base and add features from the other games. With the 3D games, there's really not much similar between them. You have levels and collect stars, and you can jump on certain enemies, but everything else is either tightly integrated into the story or just different with no clear direction to prefer. Even the way Mario is controlled is different.[/quote] i was thinking to make a mario game with 3d gameplay/moment and moves like as Super mario 64 and add small/big/powerups to it and instead of stars just a goal like as Super mario 3d land but with super mario 64 gameplay and more powerups and harder levels not so much a 3d mario game with getting stars as SM64/sunshine/galaxy but i needing a good engine for that since i got almost all the needed animetions/models done for mario bros as i can use but my coding skill is not so good yet i only know to game maker right now (2d not so much 3d yet) since idk to blender´s game engine or unity or unreal engine

I've noticed [url=http://www.youtube.com/user/sindiinbonnienclyde/]this person[/url] has written some great Mario Galaxy-like scripts for Unity. They seem consistent with the actual games as well, which is pretty impressive. Unfortunately they don't seem to want to release the source code, which is an absolute shame because I would love to see how they did a couple of things (especially the planet-gravity stuff). Maybe if you ask them reeeeaaally nicely?

i alittle agree with you there is a need for mario 3d engines and too many "good onces" for 3d Sonic engines i was thinking to self make one something like a Mario 3d land(3ds) Engine 3d mario gameplay but with the small>Big>powerup system instead of health like in galaxy/sunshine/64 too bad i am too noob to code stuff in 3d yet but its sure one of the first things i will code then i learn 3d game maker or unity and infact i am waiting for http://www.youtube.com/user/sindiinbonnienclyde/ to release his stuff(as he will do) since i have alot of 3d models of Powerups(almost them all) for mario bros and needing a 3d engine for: 1. learn how to code stuff in 3d 2. make it easyer for me to make my game like as the 2d mario engines do for 2d mario games 3. finnaly use some of my 3d models/animetions for Mario bros beside Super Smash bros Brawl modding(aka hacking) since i have alot for almost any powerup in Mario bros series + some fan made i am about to Rig as i was planing to use for SSBB modding(aka hacking) and maybe as soon a 3d mario engine is released infact i was thinking to find the best programmors in this site and make a thread for a team just for make a 3d mario engine there is as good as them for sonic (or better) i think i will mainly be the one to work on animetions/3d models on mario bros since i have alot of them used Brawl mario bros models but Retextured to look like in galaxy so the model will have Fingers unlike the NSMBwii/galaxy 3d models for all of the 3d models/animetions for powerups and stuff

MarioDK! i didnt think i would see you here! Im glad to see you're still trying to make that brawl fangame happen. If you ever find out how to interpret the .chr0 format, i would be happy to be one of the programmers. Thats the only reason i don't use brawl models and animations to make a 3D fangame with them.

[quote="TheShyGuy"]MarioDK! i didnt think i would see you here! Im glad to see you're still trying to make that brawl fangame happen. If you ever find out how to interpret the .chr0 format, i would be happy to be one of the programmers. Thats the only reason i don't use brawl models and animations to make a 3D fangame with them.[/quote] ofc i am have to its first now i using my account i made here i have known this site before SSBBrawl (i think) anyway thats also one of the things that keep me away from making a 3d mario fangame i have a idea of(kinda hard to explain that idea of a fangame but it will be something anyone here on this site will love thats for sure unless you hate 3d mario games or 3d remakes of old mario games but still same gameplay) as well as SSBn64: Remake with brawl models/animetions and brawl like gameplay (later something bigger but i just aiming for SSBn64 remake if i ever will be able to make 3d games) sadly non one got time to make a .chr0 animetion format to 3ds max converter so its possible to use 3d animetions from SSBBrawl,NSMBWii,afew other games(its no difference from using 2d sprites from older mario games in the fan games here in my option its still ripped stuff from nintendo´s games just like ripping 3d models/animetions) but there is 1 converter for the .chr0 animetion format: the Brres viewer but really buggy and does not work with some models if they is not converted by bress viewer (model converter there is also buggy) and use the .chr0 animetion format in a game engine and the mdl0 format aswell in game maker i have tried but failed i think it is possible still but i am too noob for 3d game maker still and it will be better if it was unity instead but i think i am the wrong guy to ask about the chr0 format i have been asked around since i have been needed a chr0 animetion converter or one who help me to make unity to use chr0 animetions(and mdl0 for models) so i can start making 3d instead game maker 2d games since i have afew animetions/models i will like to use from Brawl/NSMB for fangames aswell as some custom made animetions in the chr0 format and models even then i have not released/Finished 1 single game in game maker(yet) i have study game maker alot(as well as unity but still too nooby for 3d games right now mainly code them) and have made afew changes in a mario engine so it become a almost NSMB engine(with SMW sprites) from DragezeeY´s engine and have plans on use the edited mario engine for a fangame i wanted to do (will have prefed it more in Full 3d but with 2d gameplay but right now 2d is fine) and so ppl finnaly got a NSMB engine(like as DragezeeY engines is for SMB3 gameplay) with Co-op,Walljump,Groundpunch,triple jump,the other stuff from NSMB gameplay(but with SMW spirites since its right now the best i got) anyway i am soon kinda done with Super Smash bros Brawl modding working on a Super Smash bros brawl project named: Mario&Sonic vs. Dragonball/Z,Onepiece,Naruto and then first beta is done i starting more on study more to unity/3d game making i am infact just waiting for that guy on youtube to release his work and if tardis got models and animetion as he said he have we can make some kinda of team to finnaly get a 3d mario engine with powerups and stuff

I still haven't actually seen a formulated answer to the question, yet. And I wonder it, myself. So far I've seen answers for why it's difficult to program a 3D Mario game. But I have not seen a viable answer for why there has been major progress in 3D programming in the Sonic scene, but not the Mario scene. Precisely what differences are there between the two concepts that would make a 3D engine more difficult than a 3D engine (or the multiples there of) for Sonic? I would like to point out the one 3D engine some one was working on and kept releasing videos of on here, but I've no idea where the topic is.

I've attempted to make a 3d Mario engine, but I'm not good at rigging/animating models so I always hit a dead end.

Hey MarioDK....i just realized something... We don't actually have to know the .chr0 format =/. We just need the keyframes (obviously...derp). The animation won't be the "exactly" the same, but it would be pretty close. AFAIK, .chr0 specifies keyframes, and interpolation format. Ill see if i can get something working in a bit.....after i eat. That leaves the brawl models... But they're exportable to other formats iirc through dass Donkey (i can't remember the name of the program). So thats done. EDIT: err i always have trouble debugging the brawlbox source code... Right now its not even letting me. I was just going to make a hack in the code the export the key frames into a text format that can be parsed and converted to other usable formats....

[quote="TheShyGuy"]Hey MarioDK....i just realized something... We don't actually have to know the .chr0 format =/. We just need the keyframes (obviously...derp). The animation won't be the "exactly" the same, but it would be pretty close. AFAIK, .chr0 specifies keyframes, and interpolation format. Ill see if i can get something working in a bit.....after i eat. That leaves the brawl models... But they're exportable to other formats iirc through dass Donkey (i can't remember the name of the program). So thats done. EDIT: err i always have trouble debugging the brawlbox source code... Right now its not even letting me. I was just going to make a hack in the code the export the key frames into a text format that can be parsed and converted to other usable formats....[/quote] i will use brawlbox for export the brawl models i prefer to use the brawl models of Mario bros and wario and waluigi from a other mario game(not the one from brawl) but with waluigi from brawl boneset+added finger bones (better then a toad for player 3-4) since they have anything modeled(like 5 fingers instead of a ball end of the arms and textured so it looks like fingers)/fully rig/can be exported with rig and almost anything ofc with texture changed so they look like as the mario games instead of SSBbrawl i can maybe give a list for the 3d mario engine i have idea of and will make out of that guy´s from youtube i will still prefer if it can use brawl files not only so we can use brawlbox to animte but also so i can use the source codes for make SSBn64 remake and later as v2 of that SSBn64 remake: SSBMugen so it will be just like Mugen but with SSB gameplay+using 3d models and can use brawlbox as a animte/modeling tool for that make mods to that game and so its possible to use other ppl´s mods from Kc-mm on that engine but thats a really big idea i have so i dont think that wil happen right now

[quote="DJ Yoshiman"] But I have not seen a viable answer for why there has been major progress in 3D programming in the Sonic scene, but not the Mario scene. Precisely what differences are there between the two concepts that would make a 3D engine more difficult than a 3D engine (or the multiples there of) for Sonic? [/quote] I'm not very familiar with the 3D Sonic series (only played Shadow the Hedgehog) and I haven't played the Super Mario Galaxy games, but here's my thought: whatever differences the 3D Sonic games have, it's still the same basic premise: you run through, collect rings, fight enemies along the way, and get to the goal ring, all with approximately the same abilities (homing attack, spin dash) and approximately the same kinds of items (trampolines, shields, speed boosts). The 3D Mario games seem on paper to be only subtly different; in all of them, you play levels and collect stars. The problem, I imagine, is that these games use such a large amount of novelties that it's difficult to figure out what "base set" of features to work with. So you have jumping, and collecting stars, and the ground pound, but then you get into the differences: should Mario punch like in Super Mario 64? Should he have F.L.U.D.D.? Should the Super Mario Galaxy gravity effect be used? To do the backflip, should Mario have to be moving like in Super Mario 64, or be able to do it from standstill like in Super Mario Sunshine? And that's just scratching the surface: add in all the novelties these games tend to use, and any basic 3D Mario engine would not feel at all the same as the official 3D Mario games.

I understand what you're saying, onpon, but i disagree. If i were to think of a reason why nobody here makes 3d games, it's because of the tools that most of mfgg-ers use. The majority here use GameMaker, or construct, which are for making 2D games. If the majority of us were to use unity3D, blender, or some other 3d game development tool, i bet we would rarely see any 2d mario games here. I'd just like to point out also, that 3D is greatly simplified if one were to use unity versus coding it from scratch (obviously). If mfgg-ers want to see more 3D games, they gotta move away from GM or construct and move onto tools that are made for 3D.

[quote="TheShyGuy"]I understand what you're saying, onpon, but i disagree. If i were to think of a reason why nobody here makes 3d games, it's because of the tools that most of mfgg-ers use. The majority here use GameMaker, or construct, which are for making 2D games. If the majority of us were to use unity3D, blender, or some other 3d game development tool, i bet we would rarely see any 2d mario games here. I'd just like to point out also, that 3D is greatly simplified if one were to use unity versus coding it from scratch (obviously). If mfgg-ers want to see more 3D games, they gotta move away from GM or construct and move onto tools that are made for 3D.[/quote] thats what i kinda wanted to too i have kinda just started with making games(but studyed it in long time) kinda just wanted to skip making 2d games and just start with 3d games cuz of the games i mainly see its Hello engine clones not even ppl´s own engine or not even the best engine For 2d mario games: DragezeeY Engine(as i use to make a almost NSMB gameplay engine if not i make it 3d instead) i bet if a 3d engine for mario games will be made it will be as much used as the hello engine anyway later today or tomorrow i make a list of ideas for my idea to a Easy to Edit Mario 3d engine (i think i can aswell do that for my plan for a SSB 3d engine aswell) its just ideas them i will post but might happen still since i have made alot of animetions/models+Porting animetions from NSMBwii model to brawl model it is possible to convert them but very buggy but it is possible but take time here is what i got models/animetions for right now if i making a Full 3d remake of a old mario game: SMB1/Lost Level: All mario Bros,Powerups,enemies,objects,Bowser bosses Animetions/Models SMB2(usa version): All mario Bros,enemies(not all),objects, Animetions/Models SMB3: All mario Bros,Powerups(only tanooki/shoes left),enemies,objects,bosses Animetions/Models SMW: All mario Bros,Powerups(inc. Yoshi),enemies(shellless koopas,afew others from SMW),objects(not world map parts but rest),Bowser bosses Animetions/Models SM64: All mario(needing afew animetions still),Powerups,enemies,objects/stages,Bowser bosses, Animetions/Models SMSunshine: i think i needing alot from that game but i think for now if i make my idea for a all in 1 3d mario engine i skip that one SMgalaxy: galaxy since i have most of SM64 this part of the engine is also done with the animetions and models of objects/enemies/bosses that only is in SMgalaxy and not older mario games that is rippeble (not with animetions/bones) SM3dLand: also almost anything done cuz of i have SM64 part of the game almost done in animetions/models the NSMB games: again same since i have most of the older mario 2d games done in animetions/models +its easy to port all animetions from mario bros to wario bros so just needing powerup models/textures for wario bros(can anyway make 2-4 player co-op support on this engine xD if making a good mario 3d engine and possible option split screen instead of anyone share 1 screen and have to wait for others ) i think i still needing more models/animetions then them i say in that list but i know i got all the needed animetions and models there is needed for a good 3d Mario game so Modeling/Animetions wont be a problem its mainly the coding and its mainly modeling and animetions that takes time if making a game and alot of all this is mainly ripped models/animetions, still afew is custom made but not really that much but is SMgalaxy get rippeble animetions/Boneset and rig i think we got any animetions needed for a SM64/galaxy engine the Sonic Engines have done the same thing with rip the animetions/models from Sonic 3d games so i dont see why not do the same with mario and again i still dont see why no 3d engine has be released yet for mario buti ts not cuz 3d game making is too hard(mainly the animetion/model part is not hard and thats is what that take most time in 3d game making) in my option making 3d animetions/models is alot more easyer then making 2d spirite animetions + you have to double(or more) the 2d spirite animetions but in not same colour if making Normal/Fire mario(+Luigi) but with 3d: only have to make mario/luigi to change texture and they can still use the same 3d animetion files so i hope soon Mfgg get more into 3d mario engines soon like Sonic retro Forums they have jumped to 3d Engines from a long time now just see how many WIP/released 3d sonic games there is here: http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=3255734c5ac6eaee62ebad8289811446&showforum=94 alot of them(some of them use same engine but still) they have jumped to 3d from a long time since while we still stuck with 2d and not even Hi-res 2d obut still SMB3 spirites and rarely SMW spirites/others so why not Mfgg can do it aswell

As TheShyGuy said, moving onto other tools other than those that simply support 2D will be the only way 3D fan-games will start to emerge on this site. I think we should move towards making 3D fan-games one step at a time. Obviously going into 3D will add one more coordinate (z) and will require more math than what simple 2D games require, but I'm sure it can be done here if we all really want it to. Maybe we should start a tutorials topic for 3D programs that are composed of the basics to the more complex.

[quote="TheShyGuy"]I understand what you're saying, onpon, but i disagree. If i were to think of a reason why nobody here makes 3d games, it's because of the tools that most of mfgg-ers use. The majority here use GameMaker, or construct, which are for making 2D games. If the majority of us were to use unity3D, blender, or some other 3d game development tool, i bet we would rarely see any 2d mario games here. I'd just like to point out also, that 3D is greatly simplified if one were to use unity versus coding it from scratch (obviously). If mfgg-ers want to see more 3D games, they gotta move away from GM or construct and move onto tools that are made for 3D.[/quote] That's a much better answer and I agree. While Onpon did provide a valid reason for what the differences would be, there was still the lingering idea of "well, Mario 64 was a simple 3D basic engine, why hasn't it been done yet?"